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Old 12-21-2011, 01:46 PM   #8521
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Thanks,

I ordered it direct from SP, so I will ping them to get an RMA setup. I didnt know if this was expected behanviour.

Could it have anything to do with the fact this was a handout motor from IIC? They didnt set these up any different did they?
No...any V3 or MMM can handle as high as 50* timing....so the 30* is not the reason causing it, but if the board is acting weird, that is different story. I will test that sensor and will warranty you a new one...

P.S>..come to think of it, send in the motor as well, I am sure it is the regular V3 hand out motor but defintiely is not the 1S version...are you sure it is a V3 1S version..? Cause that is not a hand out motor that I send to IIC.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:48 PM   #8522
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I am having trouble looking up the stats on the 1 cell motors...

I ordered a 7.5R 1cell and it will be used in TC and Drifting. I need reccomendations for starting points for timing. I want very low end torque and decent run time. I will be using it with a Tekin FX-R Pro and 2 cell lipo...

1) will it work?
2) motor timing reccmonedations please.
3) should it be geared differently becasue of the 1 cell?
4) What is the REAL difference except that the motor can run on a 1 cell...
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:09 PM   #8523
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Originally Posted by Solara View Post
No...any V3 or MMM can handle as high as 50* timing....so the 30* is not the reason causing it, but if the board is acting weird, that is different story. I will test that sensor and will warranty you a new one...

P.S>..come to think of it, send in the motor as well, I am sure it is the regular V3 hand out motor but defintiely is not the 1S version...are you sure it is a V3 1S version..? Cause that is not a hand out motor that I send to IIC.
I was mistaken it was a 1S that was purchased at Snowbirds '11. I bought it off a fellow racer when I needed a 17.5. I confused it for a IIC hand out that he and I were talking about.

I'll get a RMA setup through the SP website on this ring... It looks similar and I can see the timing is shifted 20Deg or so from the position of the sensors... The funny thing is, if I shift the phases one spot to the clockwise rotation (so A -> B, B->C, C->A) positions, the motor runs smooth as silk... only backwards
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:30 PM   #8524
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Originally Posted by silverhkswrx View Post
I am having trouble looking up the stats on the 1 cell motors...

I ordered a 7.5R 1cell and it will be used in TC and Drifting. I need reccomendations for starting points for timing. I want very low end torque and decent run time. I will be using it with a Tekin FX-R Pro and 2 cell lipo...

1) will it work?
2) motor timing reccmonedations please.
3) should it be geared differently becasue of the 1 cell?
4) What is the REAL difference except that the motor can run on a 1 cell...
1) will it work? YES it will work
2) motor timing reccmonedations please. MIDDLE default position.
3) should it be geared differently becasue of the 1 cell? No...gear the same as other 17.5.
4) What is the REAL difference except that the motor can run on a 1 cell...Actually, this motor is aimed at 12th scale area...since 12th scale running with only 1 cell, thats why we called it 1 cell version. But it will work with 2 cells as well. The different is the motor has a little higher RPM then the V3...V3 has more torque. The 1S motor is a little lighter in weight, so there is a advantage by using it on 12th scale.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:30 PM   #8525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clegg View Post
I was mistaken it was a 1S that was purchased at Snowbirds '11. I bought it off a fellow racer when I needed a 17.5. I confused it for a IIC hand out that he and I were talking about.

I'll get a RMA setup through the SP website on this ring... It looks similar and I can see the timing is shifted 20Deg or so from the position of the sensors... The funny thing is, if I shift the phases one spot to the clockwise rotation (so A -> B, B->C, C->A) positions, the motor runs smooth as silk... only backwards
Our office will have to check both...your motor and your sensor.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:50 PM   #8526
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Originally Posted by Solara View Post
1) will it work? YES it will work
2) motor timing reccmonedations please. MIDDLE default position.
3) should it be geared differently becasue of the 1 cell? No...gear the same as other 17.5.
4) What is the REAL difference except that the motor can run on a 1 cell...Actually, this motor is aimed at 12th scale area...since 12th scale running with only 1 cell, thats why we called it 1 cell version. But it will work with 2 cells as well. The different is the motor has a little higher RPM then the V3...V3 has more torque. The 1S motor is a little lighter in weight, so there is a advantage by using it on 12th scale.
So there is no advantage in retarding the timing to counteract the torque loss? (Drifting reason)
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:24 PM   #8527
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Most of our shop will carry that...or check here for the date. Right now, the S and R version will be mid JAN, Stock Club Race version will be FEB/March...PRO version will be APRIL or so.
I cant seem to find this data anywhere. Does the S or R have a booster (or will Pro) for 1s racing?
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:09 AM   #8528
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Reventon does look awesome!!

Only "problem" pro version will be released later on
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:25 AM   #8529
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i looked at this already , more so wanted an explination of all software , what it does, the differences, and how it applies the boost and turbo. more so wanting to know if SP has software that adds Boost and turbo on top of each other, like its boosting then the turbo delay has been reached, and turbo is added while its still boosting ? this is the Tekins strong point in boosted stock here, and we are requiring software that also does this. so far all i see is the HW software does so, and it is explained as such. so would be nice to have a guide of the SP software for how things are applied, and when things stop. the link covers the 323 well, just doesnt explain that only one is added at a time. Cheers.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:39 AM   #8530
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well it looks like now i will be owning 4 speed passion speed controllers and only 2 cars. open stock looking at the specs will i be getting the Reventon R for boosted stock? i can see the grey one sitting in my car now

looks like i may have to sell one of my speedies maybe the GT2.0 pro
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:29 AM   #8531
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I just picked up a Cirtix Club Race for my F104. A couple of people on the 104 thread highly recommended it. Is the programing box really necessary, or are the brake settings pretty good out of the box?
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:13 AM   #8532
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Originally Posted by Clegg View Post
Hey there,

I have a 17.5R V3 1 Cell motor (sealed motor from IIC). I am racing in blinky 17.5 1/12 class and wanted more than the stock 10Deg of timing. I picked up (possibly by accident) the 20+ green sensor ring. even at the lowest timing of 20, the motor barely works. It drives like an old sensorless motor, chugging, and even at full speed it sounds very very harsh like a misfire in an old car.

The Tekin ESC I am using (in ROAR mode) shows all 3 Hall sensors reporting back.

is 20 Deg just a step too far for this motor? Should I return the sensor ring? If I put the stock 0-10 black ring back in, the motor runs fine.

I know that Howard has replied to you, however check the air gap between the sensors and the rotor with the std one then check it with the +20 board make sure it is the same. Differences in the boards could cause different air gaps causing it to cog.

- James
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:27 AM   #8533
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I cant seem to find this data anywhere. Does the S or R have a booster (or will Pro) for 1s racing?
No...only the PRO will be able to run on 1S without booster.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:29 AM   #8534
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So there is no advantage in retarding the timing to counteract the torque loss? (Drifting reason)
You can adjust the timing ring to full left (0*) and or play with the optional rotor to adjust the torque gain/loss....however, it is only about 10* of timing that you can play with...
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:31 AM   #8535
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For those of you asking for a deeper explaination of the settings, I have written out a bit of a lengthy discussion on my understanding of how the 323_Stock software operates. This is based on my own research and understanding of the workings of the SP software, and it may not be 100% accurate. Solara can chime in with any corrections as he sees fit. It should give you at least a better understanding of the overall picture.

The main settings you will adjust are 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, and 15. The blank setup sheet is available at this link and it can be helpful for you to visualize what I am talking about. Here is a rundown of how they relate and operate:

--------------------------------
BOOST TIMING
--------------------------------

#9, #13, and #15 all cover boost timing. #13 is the RPM point where the speed control begins to add the boost timing to the motor. #15 dictates the rate which at which that boost timing is applied. It is stated in RPM per 1* of boost added. #9 is the maximum amount of boost timing it will apply after the start RPM is reached AND it adds/added 1* of boost per the boost timing acceleration setting (#15).

For example, let's say your boost timing (#9) is 40*, your start RPM is 10,000 RPM (#13), and your boost timing acceleration is 500 RPM/deg (#15). This means that:
  • boost timing begins to apply once your motor hits 10,000 RPM, even if you are not at WOT (wide open throttle).
  • it begins to apply the boost timing 1* at a time for every 500 RPM added
  • once you have reached 30,000 RPM you will have your full 40* of boost timing [(40 * 500) + 10,000 RPM]. from this point on, as long as you stay above 30,000 RPM, the boost timing will stay at 40*.

Boost is RPM dependent only, and if you lift your throttle during a sweeper, the boost is still being applied if it is within the RPM range. Turbo does not function the same way.


--------------------------------
TURBO TIMING
--------------------------------

#10, #12, and #14 all cover turbo timing. #14 is the delay (in tenth of a second increments) from when you hit WOT (wide open throttle) to when it starts applying the turbo timing. #12 is the maximum amount of turbo timing it will apply, stated in 1* incremements. #10 is the rate at which the turbo timing is applied, stated in degrees per tenth of a second.

In my opinion, the turbo settings are very critical because it's easy to add too much turbo too early, which just builds heat and doesn't make the car any faster (because the motor gets overwhelmed by the timing dumped on it, and can't react fast enough).

One other thing worth noting about turbo timing, is that it is not RPM dependent. It's dependent on two things: the time delay (#14), and being WOT. If either of these are not met (or are met and then lost [such as releasing the throttle at all]), then the turbo disappears completely until the requirements are met again. More on this later.

Let's do another theoretical. Let's say you are running 20* of turbo (#12), with a 0.2/s delay (#14), and a slope rate of 6*/0.1s (#10). This means that:
  • once you hit (and hold) WOT, two tenths of a second later (0.2/s) the turbo timing will start to apply
  • the timing will apply at a rate of 6* per additional tenth of a second (after the original 0.2/s delay)
  • after 0.533 seconds, you will have applied all of your 20* of turbo timing, given that you stayed at WOT the whole time (0.2/s delay + an additional 0.33 for the 20* of timing to apply at a slope of 6*/0.1s)
  • if you lift the throttle at all, the turbo disappears and the whole process starts from the beginning after you hit WOT again

Now as you can see, there are options for 18, 24, and 30* per 0.1/s for the turbo slope (#10). These options basically add all of the turbo instantly, and combined with a very small turbo delay (#14), means that you can add A LOT of timing REALLY fast. This is usually not desirable.

--------------------------------


Now that boost and turbo timing have been explained, how do you gracefully merge the two together? That is tricky to answer, and it depends on a lot of factors. The brand/model of the motor, the wind of the motor, track type, traction level, ambient temperature, and your personal driving style are all large factors.

In a general sense, you want the boost timing to do most of the work on the infield of the track, and you want the turbo timing to help with the top speed on the straight away and perhaps any long sweepers or large flowing sections of your track.

If you have the turbo kicking in too quickly it can greatly add to the temperature of the motor, and may cause fading towards the end of your run. It can also cause erratic driving behavior on the infield of a track, because when you "lift" the throttle even momentarily, all the turbo disappears, and it can cause the car to "check-up." Typically I like to run about a 3:1 to 2:1 ratio of boost timing to turbo timing. However in modified, sometimes the ratio is closer, like 3:2, with the overall level of timing being much lower compared to spec motors.

When thinking of how to apply the two, keep in mind that you want boost timing to control some of the bottom end and all of the mid-range power. You want turbo to control the top end power. Notice how I said boost timing should control SOME of the bottom end? You can also apply too much boost timing too soon, just like turbo. You don't want your start RPM (#13) or your boost timing acceleration (#15) to be too early, as this can overtime the motor as well. The very beginning of the low-range power band is really dictated by your gearing (FDR) and your motor timing. These are both important factors as well. Motor timing is often overlooked in boosted setups, but it can play an important role in your overall setup.

I will not get into actual setup advice here, as it's more of a general guideline for you to understand how each setting works. Feel free to post your setup here (or send me a PM) and many of us in this thread will be more than willing to help you with your setup.

Hope this helps!

-T.J.
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Last edited by M-Technic; 12-22-2011 at 08:45 AM.
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