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Old 06-03-2011, 08:54 PM   #7246
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Question, when comparing motor kv and wind Speed Passion seems to be a lower KV Rating. Now when looking at esc settings are they going by KV or Wind. I ask this because, an example is a SP 9.5 has a 4000kv rating when it should be much higher something like 4800kv. Not sure how to take this, are the speedos rating around SP motors or am I thinking to much into this?

And is anyone using Speed Power Lipos?
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:35 PM   #7247
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I ran the GT2.1EX speedo last night for the very first time. it was in a 1/12th car on a medium sized flowing layout carpet track with good grip. motor was a novak velociti 4.5L. Roll out was 51.45mm. Car was missile fast. Great rip off the corners and plenty of top end speed too. Very linear and yet agressive feel to the throttle response. Only about .4 sec per lap of drop off from the front of the run to the end of it. Fast laps were in the 8.6 second range. Ending laps were mostly in the 9.0 range. I was thrilled with the speed and performance of the car. But I'm worried about the temperature that I was seeing on the speedo. Coming off the track, the motor was a nice comfy 132 degrees. But the speedo was way up there at 220 degrees. It didn't thermal or shut down. But that high of a speedo temp does seem excessive. Any thoughts as to why? or tips on how to get the speedo temp down without giving away any of the great power? Here's the readings from the LCD program card.....
V1.06_100617
forward & brake only
20% drag brake
voltage protection - none
DRRS punch - level 7
brake force - 50%
rev. force - 25%
initial brake - drag brake
neutral range - 6%
AMTS timing - #1
Overheat prot - enable
SC Boost level - stage 2
SC RPM delay - 7000
SS Full Throttle Delay - 0.2 sec
SC punch : -1
considering these settings, why was my speedo coming off the track at 220 degrees and yet the motor temp was good? how hot is too hot for the speedo? what can I change to bring the speedo temp down? any help will be greatly appreciated. I love the speed and the feel of this speedo, and the motor seemed to like it too. But I'm worried about so much speedo temperature. Help please.
what is your roll out ??

this is normally why a speedo gets hot , if your gearing is wrong
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:13 AM   #7248
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Not sure if this is the right spot or not. Anyway hopefully someone could explain this to me. I have two different cars both running the sp gt2.1 pro stock and a d3 21.5 motor.

I've run one car at 4.2 on the older software with no problems (albiet low top speed but great acceleration)

The same car at 5.0 on the current software (great top speed but little acceleration on default settings)

Same car again at around 6:1 on the current software and it came to a crawl after 2 minutes. Checked motor temps and they were low, esc was cool as well. (settings were similar to this: http://www.speedpassion.net/uploadfi...Harbor_JAS.pdf but with 38 boost timing)

Put the settings to default (put drrs back to 8 though) and the same thing happened.


I've also run my other car at a 5.4:1 with current software and default settings it was fine. Changed the gear ratio to 6:1 and it came to a crawl after 3 minutes and to a stop when i tried to bring it to the pits. Though this car runs tamiya plugs instead of corally and the plug had burnt out and broken connection.

Now perhaps my second car could be explained for falling off due to the plug burning out (though I can't make sense of why the plug would burn out) But I can't explain the first car at all.

Can anyone shed any kind of light on this for me?

Thanks.
John

Last edited by J-PaP; 06-04-2011 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:50 AM   #7249
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Originally Posted by J-PaP View Post
Not sure if this is the right spot or not. Anyway hopefully someone could explain this to me. I have two different cars both running the sp gt2.1 pro stock and a d3 21.5 motor.

I've run one car at 4.2 on the older software with no problems (albiet low top speed but great acceleration)

The same car at 5.0 on the current software (great top speed but little acceleration on default settings)

Same car again at around 6:1 on the current software and it came to a crawl after 2 minutes. Checked motor temps and they were low, esc was cool as well. (settings were similar to this: http://www.speedpassion.net/uploadfi...Harbor_JAS.pdf but with 38 boost timing)

Put the settings to default (put drrs back to 8 though) and the same thing happened.


I've also run my other car at a 5.4:1 with current software and default settings it was fine. Changed the gear ratio to 6:1 and it came to a crawl after 3 minutes and to a stop when i tried to bring it to the pits. Though this car runs tamiya plugs instead of corally and the plug had burnt out and broken connection.

Now perhaps my second car could be explained for falling off due to the plug burning out (though I can't make sense of why the plug would burn out) But I can't explain the first car at all.

Can anyone shed any kind of light on this for me?

Thanks.
John
If your using lipos you need to change that connector to a high current one like deans, traxxas, ec3 or something alone those lines. I dont run a connector I just use 4mm bullets that plug right into the battery. Those tamiya plugs cant handel the current or the amps that comes from a lipo. This could be your problem.
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:57 AM   #7250
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Thanks. Well that explains why the connector on one of them is broken. Hopefully someone can explain to me the slow down problem I've had.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:16 AM   #7251
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Thanks. Well that explains why the connector on one of them is broken. Hopefully someone can explain to me the slow down problem I've had.
Are you using tamiya plugs on both?
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:25 AM   #7252
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No I'm using bullet connectors/corally plugs that plug straight into the battery on the other car. Also I have a feeling the motor's are blown on both cars since they seem to have a lot of resistance when you try to spin them by hand. I've pulled both motors apart and see no obvious signs. But i don't know what to look for when working out if a motor is blown or not.

If the motors are blown I don't really understand how that has happened as I thought the motor had to get hot for that to happen? Both my motors read fairly normal temperatures.

Maybe I've over revved the motors with my gearing?
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:49 AM   #7253
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Originally Posted by J-PaP View Post
No I'm using bullet connectors/corally plugs that plug straight into the battery on the other car. Also I have a feeling the motor's are blown on both cars since they seem to have a lot of resistance when you try to spin them by hand. I've pulled both motors apart and see no obvious signs. But i don't know what to look for when working out if a motor is blown or not.

If the motors are blown I don't really understand how that has happened as I thought the motor had to get hot for that to happen? Both my motors read fairly normal temperatures.

Maybe I've over revved the motors with my gearing?
How do the bearings on the motor look and feel?
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:59 AM   #7254
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what is your roll out ??

this is normally why a speedo gets hot , if your gearing is wrong
roll out is 51.45mm
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:07 AM   #7255
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How do the bearings on the motor look and feel?
I had just pulled one of the motors apart and gave it a good clean before today and the bearings felt good. The bearings still feel good after today. When the motor is all together though it is definitely not right. I've got another one of the same motor that is brand new and it feels totally different. Can clearly feel the resistance from the magnets.

EDIT: Turns out some glue from the strator has melted and is binding on the rotor.

I have a new question instead now:

So I have run default settings at a ratio of 5.4. As I said before car was quick (possibly too quick) in a straight line but lacked down low acceleration). I've done at least 6 6 minute runs like this and it didn't overheat to the best of my knowledge(though suspect my temp gun may be faulty as it said my motor didn't overheat today either). So I increased the ratio to 6.0 and using the exact same settings the motor has overheated. I always thought that if you increase the gear ratio the car should run cooler. So why would it run hotter? Am I right to guess that it is because of the boost start rpm setting now coming in too early as the motor now revs more for the same amount of speed?

Last edited by J-PaP; 06-04-2011 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:02 PM   #7256
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Coming soon

My 4.5 set up fo the 323 stock program

I ran this yesterday and WOW amazing fast and cool speed and motor

Will post it on tonight when i am home
WOW....seriously?

Please do share your setting....as we are scheduling ourself to head to the 1/8th track and do some stock 17.5 and mod setting....when I was there last year running 4.5, that was too fast for me already....now, boost with 4.5. I hope the BRAKE would work that day...LOL
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:20 PM   #7257
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Originally Posted by koopesv View Post
Question, when comparing motor kv and wind Speed Passion seems to be a lower KV Rating. Now when looking at esc settings are they going by KV or Wind. I ask this because, an example is a SP 9.5 has a 4000kv rating when it should be much higher something like 4800kv. Not sure how to take this, are the speedos rating around SP motors or am I thinking to much into this?

And is anyone using Speed Power Lipos?
(1) I use Speed Power Lipo....good lipo, good price. And they looks good.

(2) Yes, you are thinking too much, and thinking about the wrong information. When you said you compare motor kv with the speed passion one, which one did you use to compare with? And why would you use "that" specific one as your baseline number...? All i know is...Speed Passion kv number are all estimate....then when I see Novak, they have their own set number (kv)...Tekin, they have their own...Mamba, they have their own number....there is no such thing is 17.5 = X,xxx kv or 4.5 = x,xxx kv to be exact. These numbers is all produced by the machine that the motor company used...I use A machine will get a A1 number...B machine will get a B1 number....

Esc setting has nothing to do with what the KV the motor can produce. The boost software is simply JACK UP the rpm in a short period of time (per your setting) and the esc timing advanced feature is just something new that the current brushless motor ESC can provide for all the sensored motor....

If you pick a 17.5 motor...lets say it can produce 2700 kv base on our print out, but when you add 26.25* of timing of it...and add 64* of boost and SC with that, at one point, my SP dyno reading, my V3 17.5 can produce 12,300kv in like 1 second or so....if I keep pulling the throttle for longer, I think I can see 15,000 kv and a blow up motor.

The kv number is very much just a guide line for customer to use in like 2008...since the timing advance, boost and turbo/SC software released....that number is meaningless anymore. At least, for me....

For your information, our motor took the world championship 2 times. Our factory driver, will use other mfr motor if our motor is 0.01s slower per lap in a heart beat.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:29 PM   #7258
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WOW....seriously?

Please do share your setting....as we are scheduling ourself to head to the 1/8th track and do some stock 17.5 and mod setting....when I was there last year running 4.5, that was too fast for me already....now, boost with 4.5. I hope the BRAKE would work that day...LOL
yeah REALLY REALLY quick

set up here

Gearing 8.0
SPv3 4.5
DRRS lvl 2
boost 35
turbo slope 6
turbo 26
start rpm 15000
turbo delay 0.3
timing acc 750

I was running a cooler on my speedo and a heat sink on my motor with 2 lrg fans on it , motor was 70 YES 70 degreesC and speedo was 60

Toni Rhienard set this up for me , and the brakes were AMAZING even at 60% on my transmitter and 87.5 in the speedo

be carefull you may crash at the end of the straight with laughing so hard at how fast it goes .

As a worlds driver said to me as i RIPPED passed him down the straight "F@#k me phil whats in that !!!!!!!!"
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:30 PM   #7259
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Originally Posted by J-PaP View Post
I had just pulled one of the motors apart and gave it a good clean before today and the bearings felt good. The bearings still feel good after today. When the motor is all together though it is definitely not right. I've got another one of the same motor that is brand new and it feels totally different. Can clearly feel the resistance from the magnets.

EDIT: Turns out some glue from the strator has melted and is binding on the rotor.

I have a new question instead now:

So I have run default settings at a ratio of 5.4. As I said before car was quick (possibly too quick) in a straight line but lacked down low acceleration). I've done at least 6 6 minute runs like this and it didn't overheat to the best of my knowledge(though suspect my temp gun may be faulty as it said my motor didn't overheat today either). So I increased the ratio to 6.0 and using the exact same settings the motor has overheated. I always thought that if you increase the gear ratio the car should run cooler. So why would it run hotter? Am I right to guess that it is because of the boost start rpm setting now coming in too early as the motor now revs more for the same amount of speed?
(1) To check and see you motor is melt or not...yes, you are correct, if the rotor has a lot of resister and without the "tick" feels, most likely, your stator is melt. And like you said eariler, when you spot the 'red/orangle" plastic area of the stator that has the melting area around...your stator is done. Speed Passion sell replacement stator...contact your dealer.

(2) Your case...very much likely, the motor is already damged during the last run....nothing is going to save you even you geared down from 5.4 to 6. I have seen 2 motor blew last week with the exact same case....after the 1st run, motor is at border line temp...then gear down, ran about several minutes, complete melt down.

This boost/SC software technology is fun when it works....but it takes quite alot of motor in order for you to find the right setting. Thats why, alot of ppl ended up going to the no timing class as they can no longer afford to blow up 1 or 2 motors per week in order to shave that 0.3 sec per lap.

(3) Tamiya plug is a big NO NO....go bullets or deans. Also...your motor sensor board might be damaged, check the same motor with different speedo or have your motor run on your friends car that has differnet speedo and see the same 2 minutes shut down happen or not.

(4) I personally think that 21.5 with boost is just asking for a motor to blow up....21.5 is pretty slow, and we have to BOOST it up and run as fast as a 13.5. I personally has all the hard time to find a good open 21.5 setting as my conclusion is....leave the 21.5 motor as a no timing motor class. Anything for boost...should be 17.5 or faster.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:32 PM   #7260
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roll out is 51.45mm
drop down to 45ish and see what this does
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