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Old 08-23-2010, 01:07 AM   #5311
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Originally Posted by ixlr8nz View Post
The simple answer is to ignore all the SP documents and just follow the Hobbywing guide on the hobbywing website. It is the bible for the 422, 518 and 528.

Mike
What's the differance, looks the same as the SP one to me

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I can't be arsed with all this software nonsense so I'm running the NO TIMING software.

A lot of people are starting to do the same. It's not even a rule at the local club.

Try it. It's fun.
I'm going to give this a try next time I'm at the track.
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:28 AM   #5312
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Ran 3 new things I’ve never ran before: Speed Passion 2.1 Prostock ESC with the V3 17.5 motor, Top Photon, and LTC-R body.

Since this is the SP thread I would like to say I’m very happy with the ESC. I used Marcos J. (THANK YOU!!!) carpet setup and it went very well against the Tekin’s. Unfortunately I couldn’t test the full potential of the setup as this track has only about a 50-60 foot straight but the infield speed was awesome on what I called a technical track. If I get the setup right with the Photon, I think it would even be better. Motor temp with a little heat sink and fan came off 6 minutes consistently at 120 F. Could have pushed the settings more probably but didn’t know what to change and didn’t feel like killing the motor when I was trying to also get the car setup right. Any suggestion for ESC changes? I only changed the drag up one setting but motor temps stayed the same.

Also, with the 528 stock software, is there anyway to turn off timing/supercharge like say with the programming box INSTEAD of reloading new software via computer so I can also use the same car in the stock class (without timing) with some kind of flashing lights that show this by the push of a FEW BUTTONS?

Any advice is always appreciated.

Ivan
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:43 AM   #5313
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Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
Also, with the 528 stock software, is there anyway to turn off timing/supercharge like say with the programming box INSTEAD of reloading new software via computer so I can also use the same car in the stock class (without timing) with some kind of flashing lights that show this by the push of a FEW BUTTONS?

Any advice is always appreciated.

Ivan
set #12 to value 1 (off)
this would turned off the Supercharge Timing and punch but not DMTS Timing,

to get full Soft Timing off
set #12 to value 1 (off)
set #9 to value 1 (0.00 į)
so your last timing is at your own motor Endbell
(physical Timing / fixed Timing).
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:49 AM   #5314
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Originally Posted by irgo View Post
set #12 to value 1 (off)
this would turned off the Supercharge Timing and punch but not DMTS Timing,

to get full Soft Timing off
set #12 to value 1 (off)
set #9 to value 1 (0.00 į)
so your last timing is at your own motor Endbell
(phicical Timing / fixed Timing).
IRGO ! Sort your life out dude you are such a frood lol.


Dude get some sleep
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:06 AM   #5315
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Originally Posted by BoneCrusher View Post
Ran 3 new things Iíve never ran before: Speed Passion 2.1 Prostock ESC with the V3 17.5 motor, Top Photon, and LTC-R body.

Since this is the SP thread I would like to say Iím very happy with the ESC. I used Marcos J. (THANK YOU!!!) carpet setup and it went very well against the Tekinís. Unfortunately I couldnít test the full potential of the setup as this track has only about a 50-60 foot straight but the infield speed was awesome on what I called a technical track. If I get the setup right with the Photon, I think it would even be better. Motor temp with a little heat sink and fan came off 6 minutes consistently at 120 F. Could have pushed the settings more probably but didnít know what to change and didnít feel like killing the motor when I was trying to also get the car setup right. Any suggestion for ESC changes? I only changed the drag up one setting but motor temps stayed the same.

Also, with the 528 stock software, is there anyway to turn off timing/supercharge like say with the programming box INSTEAD of reloading new software via computer so I can also use the same car in the stock class (without timing) with some kind of flashing lights that show this by the push of a FEW BUTTONS?

Any advice is always appreciated.

Ivan
in order to get the blinking light and true spec settings you have to put 508 no timing software on your speedo
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:18 AM   #5316
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Dude get some sleep
you're right.
thnk's
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:01 AM   #5317
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Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
Just a qustion to Jimmy and Irgo, why are you all getting so hung up on Tekin's end RPM?
Because it defines the slope of the ESC timing being applied.

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Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
The SP/HW speedo's work differently to Tekins, so why the need to convert settings?
Can you please provide the documentation which describes this? It has been asked for several times, yet all we get is more personal theories / understandings of how the ESC works not actual SP or HW documentation.

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Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
In all honesty do we need to know the middle RPM and end RPM of the timing ramp when the timing ramp on the SP/HW is linear as set by the amount of RPM/Degree on SC Punch. With a Tekin you need to calculate a curve based on beginning and ends but the HW/SP does this for you?

I fail to understand why this calculator is needed unless you are trying to emulate a Tekin program?
Knowing the Beginning & End points tells the user how fast they are applying the timing to the motor. With Tekin you tell it an End Point, and it calculates a variety of start points the user can choose. The SP ESC does the opposite. You select a start point and RPM/Degree, and then you have to hand calculate the end point (or use the calculator program to simplify this step). The Tekin esc is actually well documented in its operation and I would say the current bench mark for performance. I understand the settings for the Tekin ESC, so when learning what the settings on the SP ESC actually do, I would run back to back tests to see the cars performance.


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Originally Posted by cherry2blost View Post
As an aside, I have a suggestion for the next software update..... Unless Supercharger is a marketing hype why not do away with the SC additional timing, and just have settings 1 to 36 for 1 degree of overall timing upto 36 degrees, forget delays and turbo's and just go with amount of timing and Ramp (SC Punch) simpler and more accurate I think lol.
That is going backwards in terms of ESC technology. Tekin's V200 did just this with "Boost Timing". V203 introduced the "Turbo Timing" where one could add a little extra timing to help carry the car down the straight while keeping a less aggressive Boost timing curve to help the motor stay cool and not feel flat due to too much timing too fast. If your after simpler, I would suggest racing a stock, zero timing class. Nothing to do but setup your car, pick a FDR for the track, and drive.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:31 AM   #5318
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Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
Because it defines the slope of the ESC timing being applied.

Knowing the Beginning & End points tells the user how fast they are applying the timing to the motor. With Tekin you tell it an End Point, and it calculates a variety of start points the user can choose. The SP ESC does the opposite. You select a start point and RPM/Degree, and then you have to hand calculate the end point (or use the calculator program to simplify this step).

That is going backwards in terms of ESC technology. Tekin's V200 did just this with "Boost Timing". V203 introduced the "Turbo Timing" where one could add a little extra timing to help carry the car down the straight while keeping a less aggressive Boost timing curve to help the motor stay cool and not feel flat due to too much timing too fast. If your after simpler, I would suggest racing a stock, zero timing class. Nothing to do but setup your car, pick a FDR for the track, and drive.

we know the method of applying the timing on Tekin's, a bit different

But really here with Speed Passion Applying timing doesn't required to find
the end RPM, since it was designed for,
The GT2.x still need to know the Start RPM, but also not always need to know.

Speed Passion GT 2.x is designed for no limit END RPM. this is implemented on
Supercharge Punch, but it still
known the limit of it's max Timing for safety reason.
it's that simple all you need to know is Start RPM.

the adjustment of timing is designed to adapt with the RPM Under Load,
with allowing to reach highest RPM at the end as far as free revolution.

..
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:43 AM   #5319
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Originally Posted by irgo View Post
we know the method of applying the timing on Tekin's, a bit different

But really here with Speed Passion Applying timing doesn't required to find
the end RPM, since it was designed for,
The GT2.x still need to know the Start RPM, but also not always need to know.

Speed Passion GT 2.x is designed for no limit END RPM. this is implemented on
Supercharge Punch, but it still
known the limit of it's max Timing for safety reason.
it's that simple all you need to know is Start RPM.

the adjustment of timing is designed to adapt with the RPM Under Load,
with allowing to reach highest RPM at the end as far as free revolution.

..
Irgo, sorry buddy but that makes absolutely no sense. Here is the information straight from the Speed Passion Manual:

The different settings of Item #13 DMTS Timing Start RPM and Item #15 Super Charger Timing Punch make different internal timing-change curves, which apply different acceleration effect at the motor. We use END PRM to present the motor speed when the presetting timing is fully applied at the motor.

END RPM = Item#13 DMTS Timing Start RPM + (Item #9 DMTS Timing + Item #12 Super Charger Timing ) * Item #15 Super Charger Timing Punch

The above formula is directly used in the RPM calculator I had done, so I all of your statemets around its incorrectness do not agree with the PUBLISHED DOCUMENTATION.

As others have stated, I am done with this topic as well. I'm sure you will respond with some cryptic answer about how we are all wrong and you are right. But before you type your next article of genius, please publish the documentation which your information is based from.

Thank goodness I have a business trip for the next two days and can forget about all this sillyness.

Jimmy
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:32 AM   #5320
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Jim, don't let him get you riled up. The rest of us all appreciate your work and dedication to cracking the proverbial code.

I never thought I would see the day that this thread was twice as active as the Tekin RS thread
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:55 AM   #5321
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Irgo, sorry buddy but that makes absolutely no sense. Here is the information straight from the Speed Passion Manual:

The different settings of Item #13 DMTS Timing Start RPM and Item #15 Super Charger Timing Punch make different internal timing-change curves, which apply different acceleration effect at the motor. We use END PRM to present the motor speed when the presetting timing is fully applied at the motor.

END RPM = Item#13 DMTS Timing Start RPM + (Item #9 DMTS Timing + Item #12 Super Charger Timing ) * Item #15 Super Charger Timing Punch

The above formula is directly used in the RPM calculator I had done, so I all of your statemets around its incorrectness do not agree with the PUBLISHED DOCUMENTATION.

As others have stated, I am done with this topic as well. I'm sure you will respond with some cryptic answer about how we are all wrong and you are right. But before you type your next article of genius, please publish the documentation which your information is based from.

Thank goodness I have a business trip for the next two days and can forget about all this sillyness.

Jimmy

no cryptic sir jimmy, it's alright same source.


i have question for you is how much max timing can be applied ?
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:46 AM   #5322
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no cryptic sir jimmy, it's alright same source.


i have question for you is how much max timing can be applied ?
AMTS timing + SC Boost. ummmm 26.25 + 8 I believe =34.25 Total, add in an additional 10 of 'mechanical' timing and you COULD have 44.25 or more depending how much you hate the motor in question
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:37 AM   #5323
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AMTS timing + SC Boost. ummmm 26.25 + 8 I believe =34.25 Total, add in an additional 10 of 'mechanical' timing and you COULD have 44.25 or more depending how much you hate the motor in question
I think this is proof that the Tekin's settings are just "numbers" and not actual timing values, right? Because they can have up 75 total timing (55 boost and 20 turbo), which would be an unruly amount of timing.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:38 AM   #5324
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[QUOTE=S.A.W;7841779]What's the differance, looks the same as the SP one to me [/QUOTE

If you follow only the hobbywing one and no others then you can't get confused. It is very simple. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to understand it.

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Old 08-23-2010, 11:00 AM   #5325
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I think this is proof that the Tekin's settings are just "numbers" and not actual timing values, right? Because they can have up 75 total timing (55 boost and 20 turbo), which would be an unruly amount of timing.
Just because you can program that much timing, does not mean you actually program it in. For Tekin setups we usually would use 40-45 Boost timing (with 0 to 5 on the motor) and 8-12 Turbo. Of course, you need to gear accordingly to utilize it and keep the motor temps in check.

Running a SP setup, I have 10 degree's in my V3 motor, and MAX DMTS timing (so around 36.5 total if you assume 26.5). I assume SC timing is in 1 degree increments, so I add 8 on top of that. So overall I believe I get less timing with the SP ESC, and need to change my gearing a bit from a typical Tekin setup. Would sure be nice in the next revision of the SP software to have a wider range (like 0 to 20) of SC timing options to fine tune the motor operation.
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