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Old 08-20-2010, 11:00 AM   #5251
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I <heart> Jimmy and Irgo.

Just remember guys, keep it cool and civil.
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:06 AM   #5252
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Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
Per the SP 528 manual, this is not correct. Super Charger timing is introduced at full throttle after the setting #14 delay is past (just like Tekin). Here are the descriptions of each setting directly from the manual:

Jimmy
right after your Motor DMTS RPM reach (defined start rpm),
and at full throotle and past delay, the Supercharge will activated.

DMTS RPM is Start RPM to start your Supercharge
as your Timing (DMTS) reach it's maximum ~21° and 8000RPM
then your RPM raise again over 21°~DEG° called supercharge,

it's simple as that,

that's why near september the RPM History PC Interface
will be release by Engineer , to sure you what's is your rpm at.
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:08 AM   #5253
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I <heart> Jimmy and Irgo.

Just remember guys, keep it cool and civil.
Yup . I just want to understand the correct operation and to be able to share it with others. Being singled out as providing incorrect information, I want to ensure that we all get the facts to how this ESC does operate.

Jimmy
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:21 AM   #5254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
right after your Motor DMTS RPM reach (defined start rpm),
and at full throotle and past delay, the Supercharge will activated.
Agreed, except that I dont believe the SC activation is RPM based from the 528 manual information.

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Originally Posted by irgo View Post
DMTS RPM is Start RPM to start your Supercharge
as your Timing (DMTS) reach it's maximum ~21° and 8000RPM
then your RPM raise again over 21°~DEG° called supercharge,
This is where we differ. As I understand it, the start of Supercharge timing is based on time delay after full throttle (setting #14) and does not begin based on a RPM level. For example:

Start RPM 8000: you begin the DMTS timing curve (as stated in the 528 manual)

After you go WOT for defined SC delay (say 0.2), the arbitrary RPM at that point, say 10000 for this example, you would begin to add in the additional SC timing to the defined DMTS timing. If you have a narrow timing window defined you get a much quicker ramp rate on the SC timing (like Tekin Turbo Ramp 3)

Jimmy
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:23 AM   #5255
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Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
Agreed, except that I dont believe the SC activation is RPM based from the 528 manual information.



This is where we differ. As I understand it, the start of Supercharge timing is based on time delay after full throttle (setting #14) and does not begin based on a RPM level. For example:

Start RPM 8000: you begin the DMTS timing curve (as stated in the 528 manual)

After you go WOT for defined SC delay (say 0.2), the arbitrary RPM at that point, say 10000 for this example, you would begin to add in the additional SC timing to the defined DMTS timing. If you have a narrow timing window defined you get a much quick ramp rate on the SC timing (like Tekin Turbo Ramp 3)

Jimmy


DMTS is not added until Start RPM is met and then added in increments defined in #15

Supercharger is not added until all of DMTS has been added, 100% throttle longer then set delay (.2 for example) at which point supercharger timing is added in increments as defined in #15 until all timing has been added at which point you have reached your "End RPM".

I think Jimmy's got this one...
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:30 AM   #5256
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I think Jimmy's got this one...
+1

And at the end, we all benefit from the debate and education.
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:38 AM   #5257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
Agreed, except that I dont believe the SC activation is RPM based from the 528 manual information.

Jimmy
that's either true Jimmy as you would do it cause of delay,
then the rpm may over it's defined Start Rpm ex : 10000rpm.
but that's depend on what motor turn(underLoad) you are.

but still the Real/underLoad RPM capable of on it's ~21° is 8000rpm
and only if your motor is only capable to reach 8000rpm on ~21°.

So your calculation must be started based on that RPM first,
then you can go to Supercharge RPM Calculating.
to have the End RPM.
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:58 PM   #5258
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Originally Posted by g26er View Post
Supercharger is not added until all of DMTS has been added, 100% throttle longer then set delay (.2 for example) at which point supercharger timing is added in increments as defined in #15 until all timing has been added at which point you have reached your "End RPM".

I think Jimmy's got this one...
Is the full throttle delay added on top of the point that full DMTS is achieved? I.E. if it takes .5 seconds for full DMTS to be achieved, will the SC not kick in until .7 seconds (given a 0.2 delay)? Or will it apply right at .5 seconds, since it was already full throttle for past the delay time?
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Old 08-20-2010, 01:17 PM   #5259
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Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
Is the full throttle delay added on top of the point that full DMTS is achieved? I.E. if it takes .5 seconds for full DMTS to be achieved, will the SC not kick in until .7 seconds (given a 0.2 delay)? Or will it apply right at .5 seconds, since it was already full throttle for past the delay time?
I'm not 100% on this one but with testing it seems that if you've got delay set to .2 (example) and it takes you .5 to make it through the DMTS timing @ full throttle then there would be no delay going into supercharger timing as the .2 full throttle would have already been met...

Again this is just my theory based on testing and I could be wrong.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:40 PM   #5260
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Originally Posted by g26er View Post


DMTS is not added until Start RPM is met and then added in increments defined in #15

Supercharger is not added until all of DMTS has been added, 100% throttle longer then set delay (.2 for example) at which point supercharger timing is added in increments as defined in #15 until all timing has been added at which point you have reached your "End RPM".

I think Jimmy's got this one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
Is the full throttle delay added on top of the point that full DMTS is achieved? I.E. if it takes .5 seconds for full DMTS to be achieved, will the SC not kick in until .7 seconds (given a 0.2 delay)? Or will it apply right at .5 seconds, since it was already full throttle for past the delay time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by g26er View Post
I'm not 100% on this one but with testing it seems that if you've got delay set to .2 (example) and it takes you .5 to make it through the DMTS timing @ full throttle then there would be no delay going into supercharger timing as the .2 full throttle would have already been met...

Again this is just my theory based on testing and I could be wrong.


out of calculation talk's
Full Throotle = is designed for the Human to decide when it should active or not.
Delay = is designed to adapt the maximum rpm torque could be possible achieved by DMTS or Not.

The reason is because not all motor had same exact rpm ex: 8000rpm flat
when underLoad, more like ex : 8341rpm.
and you dont want the supercharge to come to early.
and to achieve the perfect start at 8341rpm, the delay is added.

The Supercharge procedure is.
The Controller reads it's
1) RPM.
2) Full Throotle.
3) end of delay.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:46 PM   #5261
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Pretty sure the delay is so when you hit full throttle for very short bursts in the infield the supercharger isn't activated keeping the motor cooler in theory. Supercharger is most useful in the straight where full throttle is applied over a long period of time (read long enough for supercharger to be applied).

Delay only effects supercharger not DMTS.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:00 PM   #5262
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Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
I.E. if it takes .5 seconds for full DMTS to be achieved, will the SC not kick in until .7 seconds (given a 0.2 delay)? Or will it apply right at .5 seconds, since it was already full throttle for past the delay time?
That's correct M-Technic as the SuperCharge mention above, you will have total 0.7 delay.

you will have 0.2 seconds stay at same DMTS RPM EDGE.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:12 PM   #5263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g26er View Post
Supercharger is most useful in the straight where full throttle is applied over a long period of time (read long enough for supercharger to be applied).

Delay only effects supercharger not DMTS.
the good word is Supercharge procedure affected by DMTS RPM.

Supercharge is not always have to be at Long Straight,

EX: if you set DMTS ~0°, and start rpm at 3000. delay 0.
and if your Motor capable to reach 3000RPM on 0°

equal as turning off DMTS. with supercharge on.
you might be able to run Supercharge on very short straight/corner.

this is why in the future we need the RPM History PC Interface.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:24 PM   #5264
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Originally Posted by irgo View Post
That's correct M-Technic as the SuperCharge mention above, you will have total 0.7 delay.

you will have 0.2 seconds stay at same DMTS RPM EDGE.
Is this fact or guess? Testing has shown otherwise...


Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
the good word is Supercharge procedure affected by DMTS RPM.

Supercharge is not always have to be at Long Straight,

EX: if you set DMTS ~0°, and start rpm at 3000. delay 0.
and if your Motor capable to reach 3000RPM on 0°

equal as turning off DMTS. with supercharge on.
you might be able to run Supercharge on very short straight/corner.

this is why in the future we need the RPM History PC Interface.
@ 3000 RPM your car is basically no faster then a brisk walking pace so yeah if you set up the ESC in the scenario then assuming you are @ 3000 RPM (I can't remember but i think minimum now is 5000) you would hit supercharger as soon at you hit full throttle (assuming 0 delay), but come on we're talking real scenarios here.

I'm done with this....
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:44 PM   #5265
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Originally Posted by g26er View Post
Is this fact or guess? Testing has shown otherwise...




@ 3000 RPM your car is basically no faster then a brisk walking pace so yeah if you set up the ESC in the scenario then assuming you are @ 3000 RPM (I can't remember but i think minimum now is 5000) you would hit supercharger as soon at you hit full throttle (assuming 0 delay), but come on we're talking real scenarios here.

I'm done with this....
+1 . Ok, for the rev 1.1 528 calculator can I get the settings for the DMTS timing (is max 21 or 26.5) and the start RPM points? At least if people agree on these two points I can update the calculator program for all.

Jimmy
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