R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-20-2010, 06:58 AM   #5236
Tech Adept
 
adri-13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Marseille
Posts: 102
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCHR Racer View Post
yes. i run an 8.5 with a 2.1 , and no cooling fan. But it does depend on your settings, where I run offroad and not alot of timing as onroad. Just keep an eye on your temps as usual with any combination.
with a supercharger soft it's not a good idea. The speedo goes to 70° without the cooling fan with a 10.5 on 6 min.

But if you use the ZERO timing soft, there is no danger

Regards,
Adrien.
__________________
PETITrc driver
www.PETITRC.com

http://rcracereportsigm-racing.blogspot.com/
adri-13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 07:00 AM   #5237
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 173
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 008-Racer View Post
Hi is it possible to run the Stock 2.1 without the cooling fan when running 13.5?
Is anyone running the 2.1 in 13.5 with no fan with lots of timing etc??
008-Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 07:02 AM   #5238
Tech Adept
 
mr fit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: new jersey usa
Posts: 163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 008-Racer View Post
Hi is it possible to run the Stock 2.1 without the cooling fan when running 13.5?
yes but make sure you set your overheat protection if you are running low fdr. or else you will fry your speedo.
__________________
marc davila aka... marc ups.... drive it like you stole it.
mr fit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 07:57 AM   #5239
Tech Master
 
g12314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL.
Posts: 1,277
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to g12314 Send a message via Yahoo to g12314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
as your attachment is for
422 DMTS RPM START Option which is:
3000,4500,6000,7500,9000,10500,12000,13500,15000.
and that calculator is not for 528

Other than that Jimmy Stegen calculator mistake is what i already mention above.
Well, since you called out my full name to make your point, I will respond by asking you to provide the CORRECT method of determining the RPM window in 528. You were asked to provide the information by another user and have not. Note: you original post does not provide the details to perform this calculation as you stated. We have found by running tests back to back with a Tekin that the RPM window seemed to match up pretty close.

I'm not here to start any internet wars over ESC's in toy cars, but I do want to understand the proper functionality of the 528 SW if it indeed differs from the method I know. Being an Electrical Engineer, I enjoy the technology side of these new ESC's and want to ensure we all can benefit from the proper understanding of their functionality.

Thanks,
Jimmy
__________________
"PREPARE TO QUALIFY"
g12314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 08:52 AM   #5240
Tech Elite
 
san.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,289
Trader Rating: 59 (100%+)
Default

Jimmy, your Excel sheet's formula worked correctly. I believe Irgo was just trying to point out that the values for the Start RPM need updating. Due to SP changing the values for the 528 release.

No one is taking away from your work, I'm sure I speak for many when I say it's appreciated.

When are you going to release worksheet v1.01? I still use your 422 version.
__________________
Awesomatix USA||Roche RC USA||Sanwa
san. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 09:05 AM   #5241
Tech Master
 
g12314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL.
Posts: 1,277
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to g12314 Send a message via Yahoo to g12314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
Jimmy your Calc for 528 is need correction.

1) at "DMTS Start RPM" it's not 528 but it's 422.
528 is :
4000,5000,6000,7000,8000,9000,10000,110000,12000

2) "DMTS START RPM" supposed to change as DMTS Timing Change.
and DMTS START RPM is defined before SC Timing is Activated,
and timing and end rpm change again.

3) "DMTS Timing" has no relation to Supercharge Timing Punch. (miss calculate)

4) "SC Timing" has no relation to SC Timing Punch. (miss calculate)

5) "SC Timing Punch" has no relation to SC Timing Punch either DMTS Timing. (miss calculate)

i'm sorry but your calculator is all wrong.
SAN, This is first part of the message where the overall method was defined as incorrect.

I'd be happy to release an updated version, however if the method of determining the RPM window is incorrect I would like to understand the proper method and implement it within the updated calculator file.

Jimmy.
__________________
"PREPARE TO QUALIFY"
g12314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 09:19 AM   #5242
Tech Elite
 
san.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,289
Trader Rating: 59 (100%+)
Default

Attached you will find the calculation for End RPM. It's from a reliable source, Speed Passion Co.!

Awaiting your revision.
Attached Thumbnails
The Speed Passion Thread-sp.jpg  
__________________
Awesomatix USA||Roche RC USA||Sanwa
san. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 09:25 AM   #5243
Tech Elite
 
defcone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,335
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by san. View Post
Attached you will find the calculation for End RPM. It's from a reliable source, Speed Passion Co.!

Awaiting your revision.
According to that, do you get more rpms out of your motor if you run a higher boost start rpm and a high #15 setting?
defcone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 09:26 AM   #5244
Tech Elite
 
san.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,289
Trader Rating: 59 (100%+)
Default

Jimmy, all in all, Irgo means well. Just misunderstood by most here on this thread.
__________________
Awesomatix USA||Roche RC USA||Sanwa
san. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 09:27 AM   #5245
Tech Master
 
g12314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL.
Posts: 1,277
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to g12314 Send a message via Yahoo to g12314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by san. View Post
Attached you will find the calculation for End RPM. It's from a reliable source, Speed Passion Co.!

Awaiting your revision.
San,

That formula is utilized within the EXCEL file, which has been identified as incorrect by IRGO for the 528 SW revision.

Jimmy
__________________
"PREPARE TO QUALIFY"

Last edited by g12314; 08-20-2010 at 09:42 AM.
g12314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 09:36 AM   #5246
Tech Master
 
g12314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL.
Posts: 1,277
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to g12314 Send a message via Yahoo to g12314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by defcone View Post
According to that, do you get more rpms out of your motor if you run a higher boost start rpm and a high #15 setting?
You get a wider RPM window for the timing curve. For example (not real SP values):

Lets say you have 40 degrees of timing programmed and 0 motor timing. You then create the RPM window for that timing to be applied.

Start RPM 3000 : End RPM 6000 This would provide a very steep slope to the timing curve to come in as you start at 0 timing at 3000, and by 6000 you reach 40.

Start RPM 3000 : End RPM 16000 This would reduce the slope of the timing curve as you start at 0 timing at 3000, and by 16000 you reach 40.


Getting the amount of timing with the slope of timing curve tuned in and the proper gearing will result in a fast setup with motor that keeps the magic smoke inside .

Hope this helps.

Jimmy
__________________
"PREPARE TO QUALIFY"
g12314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 09:47 AM   #5247
Tech Fanatic
 
irgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
SAN, This is first part of the message where the overall method was defined as incorrect.

I'd be happy to release an updated version, however if the method of determining the RPM window is incorrect I would like to understand the proper method and implement it within the updated calculator file.

Jimmy.
Jimmy i must sure you that i appreciate as previously i said.
you can correct me if i'm wrong, and i have been testing your calculator.
it's good idea.

maybe not everything is incorrect, you can decide it your self,

I thought you must add both RPM Start, as 528 and 422 start RPM
must be a defined,

another thing is that if you would like to use DMTS included in to calculated
formula, you may need to change RPM Start as well,
if the result for RPM DMTS not equal to RPM Start, the next is
supercharge boost and Punch will not activated, and so the End RPM is false,
on your calculator.

my suggestion is to calculate RPM Start = DMTS RPM.
as "RPM START" is the result of your calculator.

Note: when DMTS is reach it's maximum degree as defined ex:0~21°.
remember that DMTS is Dynamics.
Example : if max 21°DMTS rpm is 8000rpm then the start rpm defined is 8000rpm,
but when you change max 18°DMTS rpm is 6000rpm your car suddenly become slow, as Supercharge is not activated. and your End RPM stuck there
at 6000rpm.
__________________
Quark Force
irgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 10:12 AM   #5248
Tech Master
 
g12314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL.
Posts: 1,277
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to g12314 Send a message via Yahoo to g12314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
Jimmy i must sure you that i appreciate as previously i said.
you can correct me if i'm wrong, and i have been testing your calculator.
it's good idea.
Thanks, but I dont understand why you would use the calculator when you specifically called it incorrect. Like I said, if it is not right, please provide the appropriate formula to determine the Start & End RPM's from the speed passion 528 settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
my suggestion is to calculate RPM Start = DMTS RPM.
as "RPM START" is the result of your calculator.
The original calculator file does exactly this. Setting #13 defines the start RPM for the timing curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
Note: when DMTS is reach it's maximum degree as defined ex:0~21°.
remember that DMTS is Dynamics.
Example : if max 21°DMTS rpm is 8000rpm then the start rpm defined is 8000rpm, but when you change max 18°DMTS rpm is 6000rpm your car suddenly become slow, as Supercharge is not activated. and your End RPM stuck there
at 6000rpm.
I agree with the definition of the timing being dynamic, however I do not understand the example. If I select 21 DMTS timing (#9 setting) and a Start RPM of 8000 (#13 setting), the ESC will have ZERO timing advance applied to the motor until 8000 RPM. At 8000 RPM it begins to add timing until you reach the calculated End RPM at which point 21 degrees of timing is applied. So for example:
Start RPM = 8000: 0 timing
Mid point RPM = 15000 (8000 + 22000) / 2 gives 10.5 timing (21 / 2)
Calculated End RPM = 22000: 21 degree timing

Thats my 0.02 on it all. If it is incorrect, please provide the examples to determine the correct operation.

Jimmy
__________________
"PREPARE TO QUALIFY"
g12314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 10:38 AM   #5249
Tech Fanatic
 
irgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
the ESC will have ZERO timing advance applied to the motor until 8000 RPM.
Jimmy
no sir Jimmy , if you set Timing DMTS to 21° meant 0 to ~21°
ex: when the Timing Reach max 21° your RPM is able to reach 8000RPM.
that's your start RPM is.

Remember that Speed Passion is designed Start RPM to activate SuperCharge.
__________________
Quark Force
irgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 10:52 AM   #5250
Tech Master
 
g12314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL.
Posts: 1,277
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to g12314 Send a message via Yahoo to g12314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
no sir Jimmy , if you set Timing DMTS to 21° meant 0 to ~21°
ex: when the Timing Reach max 21° your RPM is able to reach 8000RPM.
that's your start RPM is.

Remember that Speed Passion is designed Start RPM to activate SuperCharge.
Per the SP 528 manual, this is not correct. Super Charger timing is introduced at full throttle after the setting #14 delay is past (just like Tekin). Here are the descriptions of each setting directly from the manual:

Item #9 DMTS Timing: It is effective throughout the entire throttle range and affects the motor speed in the entire track. Please note this refers to the maximum value of the ESC internal timing, the actual timing is always dynamically changed every moment according to the motor RPM.

Item #12 Super Charger Timing: It is the additional timing that added to the DMTS Timing and only effective when the throttle is fully opened, so usually it is useful for long straight track.

Item #14 Super Charger Delay: This is the time that must expire at fully opened throttle to engage Super Charger. If the fully opened time of throttle is less than the setting value, the Super Charger will NOT be activated.

Item #13 DMTS Timing Start RPM: ESC begins to increase the internal timing when motor speed reaches the DMTS Timing Start PRM. A lower DMTS Timing Start RPM setting will produce a faster rate of Super Charger because the ESC increases the internal timing earlier.

Item #15 Super Charger Timing Punch: This refers to the RPM increment that triggers the ESC timing increase of 1 Degree. A lower Super Charger Timing Punch setting will produce a faster acceleration and hotter temperature of the motor.

Setting #13 does reference the SC timing, however it is defining its slope as well (just like Tekin Turbo Ramp setting). The ESC does not just dump SC timing onto the motor, it creates a ramp using the DMTS timing setting as well.

All of my information is based on this published data. If you know something different about the operation please share.

Jimmy
__________________
"PREPARE TO QUALIFY"
g12314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speed Passion GT Competition Brushless ESC v2.0 Low Profile, LPF pink_sleeve Electric On-Road 13 07-08-2009 10:17 AM


Tags
gt2, lack of help, overpriced, poor customer service, reventon, reventon pro, speed passion


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:39 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0