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Old 01-14-2010, 12:42 PM   #1801
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The initial two shown on the graphic are 3000Kv and 4000Kv.

In direct Kv comparison, they would be around a 10.5 "ROAR build" and around an 8.0 "ROAR build" respectively.

In racing equivalent terms, if you like a 10.5t, you'll get similar performance from the 3000Kv Cirtix geared up a few teeth, but at MUCH lower motor/ESC/battery temps and longer runtime. If you want to gear it up from there - go right ahead.

If you like an 8.5/7.5, then the same as the above goes for the 4000Kv Cirtix.

We should have the same rough equivalents for 6.5/5.5 (5500ish), and 3.5/4.5 (8000ish) coming soon as well.

Cain - correct. if you look straight across to a comparable Kv of a ROAR build motor, depending on which motor you are comparing, the slotless one can have as much as twice the available power (not rpm via Kv, just available amps/watts of power) than it's "similar Kv" ROAR build motor.

As a direct example - the 3000Kv Cirtix being compared to a 10.5 - the ROAR build 10.5 is about a 220 watt motor. The Cirtix is in excess of 500 watts.

Watts directly convert to actual horsepower, so it would be the same example as your full size car having a 220Hp engine, compared with a 500+Hp engine.
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:05 PM   #1802
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Sounds crazy I'm wondering which ESC will be able to cope with 8000kV (how much power it does have?).

Anyway when are they planned to be available? Also are they planned to be given to EFRA for approval?
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:01 PM   #1803
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Default Speed Passion Critix

1) will Critix able to it's armature/wind replaceable product ?

2) will sensoreless work's with critix ?

3) What happen with fixed timing ?

4) what happen with software timing ?

5) will Critix Rotor compatible with any version competition BL ?
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:39 PM   #1804
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Shawn, great write up. Thanks for letting us see behind the curtain.

I'm somewhat familiar with the technology from flying. I wondered how they are able to get 2000w out of a 480 sized motor!! Pretty cool stuff.

Rob.......
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:56 AM   #1805
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irgo:

1) I don't understand your wording there - can you restate that please?

2) All sensorless and sensored ESCs will drive these motors yes.

3) I'm not sure I understand this one either please?

4) These are mod motors, and typical of all mod motors regardless of build style, the higher the Kv, the less timing advance should be used, as it becomes a point of diminishing returns very rapidly the faster the motor Kv is.

For an example, anything higher than 20deg for 3000kv motor will only lead to excessive heat and slower motor performance. For the 4000kv motor, that line would be at about 17deg. For the 5500 - max of about 12deg, and the 8000 - max of about 8deg.

Advance is used in stock style motors as an advantage to get more out of them since everyone is running essentially the same motor. If you want more power in the mod classes - just run a more powerful motor. No need to overstress things with excessive advance.

5) I'm not sure if the Cirtix rotor will fit in anything else, as it was made for this new Speed Passion motor series.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:23 AM   #1806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
irgo:

4) These are mod motors, and typical of all mod motors regardless of build style, the higher the Kv, the less timing advance should be used, as it becomes a point of diminishing returns very rapidly the faster the motor Kv is.

For an example, anything higher than 20deg for 3000kv motor will only lead to excessive heat and slower motor performance. For the 4000kv motor, that line would be at about 17deg. For the 5500 - max of about 12deg, and the 8000 - max of about 8deg.
Hi Shawn.. the timings you mentioned for the various mod motors.. are you refering to the timing setting on the motor itself? Or on the software?

What you are saying makes sense, and I will definitely use them as a reference.

Apologies if my question is a 'dumb' one.. I've just gotten back into RC after 20 years, and am still trying to come to terms with all these new technology.. quite overwhelming.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:35 AM   #1807
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Originally Posted by sammies View Post
Hi Shawn.. the timings you mentioned for the various mod motors.. are you refering to the timing setting on the motor itself? Or on the software?

What you are saying makes sense, and I will definitely use them as a reference.

Apologies if my question is a 'dumb' one.. I've just gotten back into RC after 20 years, and am still trying to come to terms with all these new technology.. quite overwhelming.
Sammies, i believe he is referring to ESC Timing.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:44 AM   #1808
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sammies:
Advance on the motor and advance on the ESC combine for total advance.

So if you run 5deg on the motor, and your esc is set to 11.5deg, you are giving the motor a total of 16.5deg.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:56 AM   #1809
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when will these new motors be available in the US?
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:03 AM   #1810
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Thanks Shawn and Charlieb for the replies.

This forum has been great... it gives pple without a clue (like me) a starting point and makes things so much easier.

thank you once again.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:19 AM   #1811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammies View Post
Thanks Shawn and Charlieb for the replies.

This forum has been great... it gives pple without a clue (like me) a starting point and makes things so much easier.

thank you once again.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:35 AM   #1812
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Hoping you all can help. I am new to brushelss motors and esc's. I am just getting back to racing and when I left it was all brushed motors with the Novak brushless systems just srating to show up in mod racing.

Here's the details. I have a new Speed Passion motor, a 17.5...the new 3.0 with the plug in wire terminals. It's been run about a alf dozen runs...3 practice, two qualifiers and a main. Motor was never run for more than 6 minutes in a run, and never temped over 140 drgrees. I tried to race tonite, but when I put the car down for practice, when I took off it sounded like I stripped a spur. Picked up the car and checked the spur and it was fine. I blipped the throttle while holding the car and everything sonded fine. Put it down again, and again the grinding noise. This time when I picked it up and verified that again the spur was fine, I tried the throttle again and nothing...motor would not turn. Back to the bench and I see that if I rotate the wheels a little, everything works again. A few blips of the throttle and it's fine...then stops again. Spin the wheels a little and it goes again for a few tries, then stops. I pulled the motor out of the car and tried to run the motor only. Same thing, runs fine for a few blips of throttle, then just stops working...spin the motor shaft and we run again. I did notice that when the motor would stop running, it stopped in the same spot..in about the same 90 or so degrees.

Trouble shooting, I tried a different battery pack and a new sensor wire. Problem still exists. I also reprogrammed the esc twice.

I am running a brand new Novak GTB 2.4ghz version. The battery is a Reedy 5000mah 2S 35C lipo. Chassis is an Ofna JL-10e. FDR was run from 4.0 to about 3.9. Motor temp never over 140 degrees.

I realize this may also be an esc issue, but I'll start here. I see that SP sells just the internal sensor ring/plate for the 3.0 motor...might I have a bad sensor as the motor always stops in the same spot
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!...and HELP!!!
I know this discussion is on a freight train right now talking about those new motors, but I thought I'd put a cap on this. Got some bench time last night. Soldered up a different motor to the GTB and had the exact same problem. Logic would dictate that the issue is with the esc then and not the motor. The SP motor also seems to run fine on a Tekin RS.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:20 AM   #1813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
irgo:

1) I don't understand your wording there - can you restate that please?

2) All sensorless and sensored ESCs will drive these motors yes.

3) I'm not sure I understand this one either please?

4) These are mod motors, and typical of all mod motors regardless of build style, the higher the Kv, the less timing advance should be used, as it becomes a point of diminishing returns very rapidly the faster the motor Kv is.

For an example, anything higher than 20deg for 3000kv motor will only lead to excessive heat and slower motor performance. For the 4000kv motor, that line would be at about 17deg. For the 5500 - max of about 12deg, and the 8000 - max of about 8deg.

Advance is used in stock style motors as an advantage to get more out of them since everyone is running essentially the same motor. If you want more power in the mod classes - just run a more powerful motor. No need to overstress things with excessive advance.

5) I'm not sure if the Cirtix rotor will fit in anything else, as it was made for this new Speed Passion motor series.


1) Is Critix Stator windings be change able ?

3) Is there Physical Timing on Critix ?
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:11 PM   #1814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irgo View Post
1) Is Critix Stator windings be change able ?

3) Is there Physical Timing on Critix ?
So you want to know if you can change the Stator like with the Novak motor and will you be able to physically change timing on the motor like all the others. I really have to ask why do you look at other companies technology then came to SP and ask if they are going to do the same thing as the other company. If you like what the other company is doing go with them and "LEAVE SP OFF YOUR BENCH, AND OUT OF YOUR CAR". Tired of your rants dude....
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Old 01-15-2010, 02:26 PM   #1815
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Quote:
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So you want to know if you can change the Stator like with the Novak motor and will you be able to physically change timing on the motor like all the others. I really have to ask why do you look at other companies technology then came to SP and ask if they are going to do the same thing as the other company. If you like what the other company is doing go with them and "LEAVE SP OFF YOUR BENCH, AND OUT OF YOUR CAR". Tired of your rants dude....

Well I thought that that was a little harsh, guy was asking a question, seems reasonable enough to expect someone to respect him enough to either answer his question without resorting to insults or to ignore his post until someone can answer it for him.

As this is a seemingly new technological breakthrough it seems reasonable enough to ask questions so as to be able to make an informed decision as to whether the improvements included are enough to make the upgrade worthwhile. I am only glad that it wasn't one of the SP guys addressing him like this because that would put off a potential purchaser.

Just my two pence worth.
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