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Old 04-08-2013, 01:50 PM   #3871
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Originally Posted by Dusttt View Post
I am building a cxl as we speak and my problem is that to get the arms to move freely I have to back the screws that go though the pivot blocks and into the hinge pins way off. Anyone have a tip here? Or should I just thread lock them in loose?

Also the lipo holder thing is not impressive anyone got their own setup for this?
for the most part, we don't use the screws. They aren't needed. also, we use tape to hold in the batteries. some of use 2-sided scotch tape to help keep them in place, but that's just personal preference.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:52 PM   #3872
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Dusttt: I have never run those screws but if you must, make sure that the suspension pivot blocks are not causing the bind. Loosen them up, move the arm up and down to center and then tighten them back. You really don't need to run those screws however...
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:14 PM   #3873
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Originally Posted by TheHoofmeister View Post
Hi, I have recently brought the Mi4cxl and will be building shortly, just getting all my bits together first. What have you changed from the stock kit that would be of improvement/benefit? I have some of the Schumacher titanium parts and ceramic bearings. I have read somewhere that it may be worth trying different shock pistons, o-rings etc that are not schumacher too so just wondered the route you have taken?
I'd say from the basic kit, pick up, in no particular order:
1) Pick up an extra smattering of shims. Both the Schumacher wider ones (3x6mm?) for the suspension blocks, as well as some Schumacher or chinse-brand 3x5mm purple ones for camber links and hinge pins. I'd buy two full packs of the suspension block ones, and 2 packs each of 0.5, 1.0, and 2.0 3x5 from a Chinese brand (like 3-racing). I'm a bit of a pack rat, though.
2) Extra kwik klips, OR an 1/8" needle file. The .5mm kwik klips tend to break, so I've taken to just using purple 3x5mm shims and filing out the hole to 1/8" so they fit on the hinge pins. It blings things up nicely, too. If you're going to stick with the Kwik Klips, you won't need quite so many spacers.
3) True CV DCJ's for the front. IMO, they make the car drive nicer, and I haven't had to buy any rebuild parts yet. I did have an incident with the pin falling out of the front after a crash, but reassembling with it rotated to another pair of holes on the barrel worked, and it hasn't given me problems since. I've done a whole season of carpet and some outdoor test sessions on mine. Well worth the money IMO.
4) 4-groove camber plates. You may not need them for asphalt, but I think they're a requirement to keep the car shiny side up on carpet.
5) Rear gear diff, and some extra .1mm shims for the out drives. I've posted about gear diff building before. For me, it's less about performance and tuning, and more about consistency and not having to worry about it.
6) Springs: For carpet, the Yokomo Pink front / Blue rear have been working great for me. They're easier for me to drive than HPI pink/silver, but still responsive. For asphalt, last year I was running HPI pink/silver on medium grip. HPI Silver/Silver are common, and Ride Red/Red seems to work on lower grip.
7) For the shocks, I like the blue O-rings that used to come in the rebuild kits. The white ones aren't bad. They are a bit tighter, but seal a bit better, too. You'll want to shim .1 to .2mm under the pistons. Tamiya, 3racing, atomic, TOP all make 3x5 shim kits with 10x .1, .2, and .3mm shims. I've also got my pistons drilled to 1.1mm. I'm honestly not sure if that makes a difference. I have some 3x1.1mm Tamiya pistons I haven't tried yet. Tamiya Blue competition O-rings may work, but I haven't tried them yet. I do know that the Tamiya X-Rings did NOT work for me at all, they leaked within a few laps. I have a hole drilled in my shock cap near where it mounts to the shock tower. I definitely prefer it this way for carpet. I need to test more vs. undrilled on asphalt, though.
8) I can't comment on the worlds suspension mount, since I haven't tried it. I don't think it's a hard requirement, though. The car is definitely not slow without it.
9) I do think a top deck is worthwhile, though. I've been using the flex carbon one. It makes the car a little smoother and easier to drive, possibly with a bit more grip. With the kit deck, it's kind of hyperactive, so you have to drive it a bit smoother, which can be slower. At least on carpet. The kit one might work better on asphalt to give a bit more response and steering.
10) Narrow front hexes, probably. Honestly, I haven't tested these vs kit, it's just one of those things that's in literally ALL the setups, so I just put them on there and didn't question it.
11) Pick up some 1.2mm piano wire at your hobby shop / hardware store and make yourself some new front/rear swaybars. I've been running the kit 1.4mm in front, though. With 1.2mm front, I could never quite get the corner entry response I wanted. That's on carpet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusttt View Post
I am building a cxl as we speak and my problem is that to get the arms to move freely I have to back the screws that go though the pivot blocks and into the hinge pins way off. Anyone have a tip here? Or should I just thread lock them in loose?
I don't run the screws at all anymore. I do have to re-check my hinge pin blocks and droop after every run, though. If you want to use the screws, your best bet is probably to crank them down (with locktite), and then sand down the kwik clips to get a good fit without binding.

One thing I wanted to try but never got around to, though, was to find some long-ish m2.5 set screws, and bottom those out with locktite in the hinge pins, and then find some m2.5 nyloc nuts. The reason I was thinking that was 2-fold: 1) Completely fill the void in the pin to hopefully make it a bit stronger, and 2) be able to tighten the nuts just until I get the slop out, without binding it up. But like I said, I never got around to trying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusttt
Also the lipo holder thing is not impressive anyone got their own setup for this?
I don't actually use the lipo holder. I have some small round silicone pads from here: http://flexibleinnovations.com/compo...410&id=1457618
Then I just battery tape. As long as your battery tape is sticking well, the battery will stay put. I also shift my lipo forwards so that the back end of the lipo just touches the screw hole you'd use to mount lipo holder in the forward position. I also have it at an angle, with the rear kicked out just enough to clear the pinion, and the front as far inboard as I can get it without the steering hitting it at full right lock. The silicon pads will lift the battery just enough that it doesn't slip under the steering plate. I should probably shim the steering plate up to fix that. :/ Anyway, this is the best balance I've found for carpet with a heavy battery and light electronics. Battery full rear is super stable but kind of flippy, and full forward just pushes too much on corner entry. I servo-taped a piece of thick plastic near the pinion to keep the battery from slipping in-board.

-Mike
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:42 AM   #3874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
I'd say from the basic kit, pick up, in no particular order:
1) Pick up an extra smattering of shims. Both the Schumacher wider ones (3x6mm?) for the suspension blocks, as well as some Schumacher or chinse-brand 3x5mm purple ones for camber links and hinge pins. I'd buy two full packs of the suspension block ones, and 2 packs each of 0.5, 1.0, and 2.0 3x5 from a Chinese brand (like 3-racing). I'm a bit of a pack rat, though.
2) Extra kwik klips, OR an 1/8" needle file. The .5mm kwik klips tend to break, so I've taken to just using purple 3x5mm shims and filing out the hole to 1/8" so they fit on the hinge pins. It blings things up nicely, too. If you're going to stick with the Kwik Klips, you won't need quite so many spacers.
3) True CV DCJ's for the front. IMO, they make the car drive nicer, and I haven't had to buy any rebuild parts yet. I did have an incident with the pin falling out of the front after a crash, but reassembling with it rotated to another pair of holes on the barrel worked, and it hasn't given me problems since. I've done a whole season of carpet and some outdoor test sessions on mine. Well worth the money IMO.
4) 4-groove camber plates. You may not need them for asphalt, but I think they're a requirement to keep the car shiny side up on carpet.
5) Rear gear diff, and some extra .1mm shims for the out drives. I've posted about gear diff building before. For me, it's less about performance and tuning, and more about consistency and not having to worry about it.
6) Springs: For carpet, the Yokomo Pink front / Blue rear have been working great for me. They're easier for me to drive than HPI pink/silver, but still responsive. For asphalt, last year I was running HPI pink/silver on medium grip. HPI Silver/Silver are common, and Ride Red/Red seems to work on lower grip.
7) For the shocks, I like the blue O-rings that used to come in the rebuild kits. The white ones aren't bad. They are a bit tighter, but seal a bit better, too. You'll want to shim .1 to .2mm under the pistons. Tamiya, 3racing, atomic, TOP all make 3x5 shim kits with 10x .1, .2, and .3mm shims. I've also got my pistons drilled to 1.1mm. I'm honestly not sure if that makes a difference. I have some 3x1.1mm Tamiya pistons I haven't tried yet. Tamiya Blue competition O-rings may work, but I haven't tried them yet. I do know that the Tamiya X-Rings did NOT work for me at all, they leaked within a few laps. I have a hole drilled in my shock cap near where it mounts to the shock tower. I definitely prefer it this way for carpet. I need to test more vs. undrilled on asphalt, though.
8) I can't comment on the worlds suspension mount, since I haven't tried it. I don't think it's a hard requirement, though. The car is definitely not slow without it.
9) I do think a top deck is worthwhile, though. I've been using the flex carbon one. It makes the car a little smoother and easier to drive, possibly with a bit more grip. With the kit deck, it's kind of hyperactive, so you have to drive it a bit smoother, which can be slower. At least on carpet. The kit one might work better on asphalt to give a bit more response and steering.
10) Narrow front hexes, probably. Honestly, I haven't tested these vs kit, it's just one of those things that's in literally ALL the setups, so I just put them on there and didn't question it.
11) Pick up some 1.2mm piano wire at your hobby shop / hardware store and make yourself some new front/rear swaybars. I've been running the kit 1.4mm in front, though. With 1.2mm front, I could never quite get the corner entry response I wanted. That's on carpet.



I don't run the screws at all anymore. I do have to re-check my hinge pin blocks and droop after every run, though. If you want to use the screws, your best bet is probably to crank them down (with locktite), and then sand down the kwik clips to get a good fit without binding.

One thing I wanted to try but never got around to, though, was to find some long-ish m2.5 set screws, and bottom those out with locktite in the hinge pins, and then find some m2.5 nyloc nuts. The reason I was thinking that was 2-fold: 1) Completely fill the void in the pin to hopefully make it a bit stronger, and 2) be able to tighten the nuts just until I get the slop out, without binding it up. But like I said, I never got around to trying it.



I don't actually use the lipo holder. I have some small round silicone pads from here: http://flexibleinnovations.com/compo...410&id=1457618
Then I just battery tape. As long as your battery tape is sticking well, the battery will stay put. I also shift my lipo forwards so that the back end of the lipo just touches the screw hole you'd use to mount lipo holder in the forward position. I also have it at an angle, with the rear kicked out just enough to clear the pinion, and the front as far inboard as I can get it without the steering hitting it at full right lock. The silicon pads will lift the battery just enough that it doesn't slip under the steering plate. I should probably shim the steering plate up to fix that. :/ Anyway, this is the best balance I've found for carpet with a heavy battery and light electronics. Battery full rear is super stable but kind of flippy, and full forward just pushes too much on corner entry. I servo-taped a piece of thick plastic near the pinion to keep the battery from slipping in-board.

-Mike
Great info thanks
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:32 PM   #3875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
I'd say from the basic kit, pick up, in no particular order:
1) Pick up an extra smattering of shims. Both the Schumacher wider ones (3x6mm?) for the suspension blocks, as well as some Schumacher or chinse-brand 3x5mm purple ones for camber links and hinge pins. I'd buy two full packs of the suspension block ones, and 2 packs each of 0.5, 1.0, and 2.0 3x5 from a Chinese brand (like 3-racing). I'm a bit of a pack rat, though.
2) Extra kwik klips, OR an 1/8" needle file. The .5mm kwik klips tend to break, so I've taken to just using purple 3x5mm shims and filing out the hole to 1/8" so they fit on the hinge pins. It blings things up nicely, too. If you're going to stick with the Kwik Klips, you won't need quite so many spacers.
3) True CV DCJ's for the front. IMO, they make the car drive nicer, and I haven't had to buy any rebuild parts yet. I did have an incident with the pin falling out of the front after a crash, but reassembling with it rotated to another pair of holes on the barrel worked, and it hasn't given me problems since. I've done a whole season of carpet and some outdoor test sessions on mine. Well worth the money IMO.
4) 4-groove camber plates. You may not need them for asphalt, but I think they're a requirement to keep the car shiny side up on carpet.
5) Rear gear diff, and some extra .1mm shims for the out drives. I've posted about gear diff building before. For me, it's less about performance and tuning, and more about consistency and not having to worry about it.
6) Springs: For carpet, the Yokomo Pink front / Blue rear have been working great for me. They're easier for me to drive than HPI pink/silver, but still responsive. For asphalt, last year I was running HPI pink/silver on medium grip. HPI Silver/Silver are common, and Ride Red/Red seems to work on lower grip.
7) For the shocks, I like the blue O-rings that used to come in the rebuild kits. The white ones aren't bad. They are a bit tighter, but seal a bit better, too. You'll want to shim .1 to .2mm under the pistons. Tamiya, 3racing, atomic, TOP all make 3x5 shim kits with 10x .1, .2, and .3mm shims. I've also got my pistons drilled to 1.1mm. I'm honestly not sure if that makes a difference. I have some 3x1.1mm Tamiya pistons I haven't tried yet. Tamiya Blue competition O-rings may work, but I haven't tried them yet. I do know that the Tamiya X-Rings did NOT work for me at all, they leaked within a few laps. I have a hole drilled in my shock cap near where it mounts to the shock tower. I definitely prefer it this way for carpet. I need to test more vs. undrilled on asphalt, though.
8) I can't comment on the worlds suspension mount, since I haven't tried it. I don't think it's a hard requirement, though. The car is definitely not slow without it.
9) I do think a top deck is worthwhile, though. I've been using the flex carbon one. It makes the car a little smoother and easier to drive, possibly with a bit more grip. With the kit deck, it's kind of hyperactive, so you have to drive it a bit smoother, which can be slower. At least on carpet. The kit one might work better on asphalt to give a bit more response and steering.
10) Narrow front hexes, probably. Honestly, I haven't tested these vs kit, it's just one of those things that's in literally ALL the setups, so I just put them on there and didn't question it.
11) Pick up some 1.2mm piano wire at your hobby shop / hardware store and make yourself some new front/rear swaybars. I've been running the kit 1.4mm in front, though. With 1.2mm front, I could never quite get the corner entry response I wanted. That's on carpet.



I don't run the screws at all anymore. I do have to re-check my hinge pin blocks and droop after every run, though. If you want to use the screws, your best bet is probably to crank them down (with locktite), and then sand down the kwik clips to get a good fit without binding.

One thing I wanted to try but never got around to, though, was to find some long-ish m2.5 set screws, and bottom those out with locktite in the hinge pins, and then find some m2.5 nyloc nuts. The reason I was thinking that was 2-fold: 1) Completely fill the void in the pin to hopefully make it a bit stronger, and 2) be able to tighten the nuts just until I get the slop out, without binding it up. But like I said, I never got around to trying it.



I don't actually use the lipo holder. I have some small round silicone pads from here: http://flexibleinnovations.com/compo...410&id=1457618
Then I just battery tape. As long as your battery tape is sticking well, the battery will stay put. I also shift my lipo forwards so that the back end of the lipo just touches the screw hole you'd use to mount lipo holder in the forward position. I also have it at an angle, with the rear kicked out just enough to clear the pinion, and the front as far inboard as I can get it without the steering hitting it at full right lock. The silicon pads will lift the battery just enough that it doesn't slip under the steering plate. I should probably shim the steering plate up to fix that. :/ Anyway, this is the best balance I've found for carpet with a heavy battery and light electronics. Battery full rear is super stable but kind of flippy, and full forward just pushes too much on corner entry. I servo-taped a piece of thick plastic near the pinion to keep the battery from slipping in-board.

-Mike
Agree, lots of info there, many thanks for this
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:10 PM   #3876
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Agreed great info!

I will be running a Mi4 until the Mi5 lands and I havent ran sedan for a few years and that info will help me greatly. Our biggest class locally is 17.5. The track is old asphalt probably bumpy by your standards approx 130x50. Is there a "goto" asphalt setup out of the many listed on petitrc? Where do you recommend I start on setup?

Like I said Ill run it for a few weeks til the Mi5 comes out. We have them on order and available for preorder on the site. Ill also get the part list uploaded when the factory releases the new part #s.

Thanks, Tony
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:53 AM   #3877
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Agreed great info!

I will be running a Mi4 until the Mi5 lands and I havent ran sedan for a few years and that info will help me greatly. Our biggest class locally is 17.5. The track is old asphalt probably bumpy by your standards approx 130x50. Is there a "goto" asphalt setup out of the many listed on petitrc? Where do you recommend I start on setup?

Like I said Ill run it for a few weeks til the Mi5 comes out. We have them on order and available for preorder on the site. Ill also get the part list uploaded when the factory releases the new part #s.

Thanks, Tony
I don't have any good asphalt recommendations. I don't remember all the details of what I ran last year, and I've improved a lot over the winter carpet season, particularly with setup, with the help of a couple other people driving Schuis this year. I'll say, though, that I'm never far from Hofer's basic setup, which itself isn't that far from the kit setup. The changes mostly seem to be about adjusting for your track layout, grip level, tires, body, and driving style.

I'll be starting with my carpet setup, with Ride red springs front and rear, an LTC-R, and probably .5-1mm more droop, and go from there. Our asphalt track, while very abrasive, has fairly good grip.

I should post my carpet setup, so I don't have to start over again next winter.

-Mike
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:23 AM   #3878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusttt
I am building a cxl as we speak and my problem is that to get the arms to move freely I have to back the screws that go though the pivot blocks and into the hinge pins way off. Anyone have a tip here? Or should I just thread lock them in loose?

I don't run the screws at all anymore. I do have to re-check my hinge pin blocks and droop after every run, though. If you want to use the screws, your best bet is probably to crank them down (with locktite), and then sand down the kwik clips to get a good fit without binding.



Am I right in saying that if running the titanium inner hinge pins, they don't have screw holes anyway?

Thanks
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:31 AM   #3879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
I don't have any good asphalt recommendations. I don't remember all the details of what I ran last year, and I've improved a lot over the winter carpet season, particularly with setup, with the help of a couple other people driving Schuis this year. I'll say, though, that I'm never far from Hofer's basic setup, which itself isn't that far from the kit setup. The changes mostly seem to be about adjusting for your track layout, grip level, tires, body, and driving style.

I'll be starting with my carpet setup, with Ride red springs front and rear, an LTC-R, and probably .5-1mm more droop, and go from there. Our asphalt track, while very abrasive, has fairly good grip.

I should post my carpet setup, so I don't have to start over again next winter.

-Mike
OK cool, sounds like Ill start with Hofer's and go from there.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:14 PM   #3880
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Originally Posted by TheHoofmeister View Post
Am I right in saying that if running the titanium inner hinge pins, they don't have screw holes anyway?

Thanks
Your are correct.

-Mike
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:53 PM   #3881
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ok so who has the magic trick to actually get the sliders to slide over the oring so that it stays between the outdrive and slider in the grooves.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:56 PM   #3882
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Just use a blade or small driver to push any part of the protruding o-ring back into the groove.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:39 PM   #3883
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Two methods:

1) put the oring in the slider, then that whole situation over the outdrive.

2) pull the bearing out to the oring groove, and use it to keep the oring in place while you slide the slider over it. This works best with cx/cxl eccentrics, because you can slide the eccentric on last.

-Mike

Last edited by grippgoat; 04-11-2013 at 02:37 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:36 PM   #3884
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thanks got them back on. sort of annoying and seems a bit low tech
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:59 PM   #3885
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thanks got them back on. sort of annoying and seems a bit low tech
Yeah, it's not my favorite part of the car. It's even worse on my two LP's that I've upgraded to CX drivetrain, because the eccentrics don't fit over the sliders/rings, so I have to put them on first. :/

-Mike
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