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Old 07-06-2011, 01:48 AM   #2851
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Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Ritchie said his new Mi4CX came in at 1295 grams, with everything including the body clips.

My TC is just shy of 1450g.

WTF?

- Thick-weight body is good for ~30g, maybe up to 40g.
- Twin point steering adds about 7g.
- Aluminum pivot blocks add 15g.
- The Viper VTX10R is pretty heavy. I'm guessing around 15g heavier than a Tekin RS, since my car weighed in around 1420 with plastic blocks and the Tekin. I'm not sure what Ritchie was running, but it probably wasn't as light as the Tekin
- The TP 65c battery I have is pretty heavy, around 310g, while an older 5000mah would be more like 295g. Again, I don't know what he had in his car.

The CX spool is a few grams lighter, but the rear diff is actually a few grams heavier, so that's a draw. Side Note: the Spec-R diff with 80wt Losi oil weighs .1g less than a CX diff!

I can't imagine the CX diff holders and retaining posts shaved more than a couple grams. And as far as I know, the rest of the car is the same. Steel axles might even be heavier, I haven't weighed them yet.

I weighed my LP bulkheads and layshaft mounts at about 75g. How much lighter are the CX ones?

I just can't wrap my head around how his car was that light.

So to sum up, I can see losing the following:
15g pivot blocks
7g steering
30g body
15g (?) ESC
15g older/lighter battery
= 82 grams

That would put me at 1368... That's a full ~70g heavier. And if I didn't swap ESC and battery, I'd still be right around 1400, which is 20g over minimum.

-Mike
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:21 AM   #2852
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Mike ....try to worry about 1 thing at a time. Earlier you're looking for setup help; Ritchie gave you changes to make. Did you make all of those changes? But that's not all, do you understand how those changes will affect the car? Instead of comparing your car versus Richie's car, compare the questions you have today with the questions you had 6 months to a year ago. What have you learned in a year? Yes weight distribution has a lot to do with how your car handles, but that shoulda been tackled when you built the car bruh. I tell you what, you show up to fantasy world 1 of these weekends that I'm there and I will look over your car. Deal?
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Old 07-06-2011, 04:15 AM   #2853
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Mike ....try to worry about 1 thing at a time. Earlier you're looking for setup help; Ritchie gave you changes to make. Did you make all of those changes? But that's not all, do you understand how those changes will affect the car? Instead of comparing your car versus Richie's car, compare the questions you have today with the questions you had 6 months to a year ago. What have you learned in a year? Yes weight distribution has a lot to do with how your car handles, but that shoulda been tackled when you built the car bruh. I tell you what, you show up to fantasy world 1 of these weekends that I'm there and I will look over your car. Deal?

Thanks for the reality check, JayBee. To be clear, though, I'm talking about two different cars. Before, I was asking about general setup for my VTA car. The post above, I was trying to figure out why my 13.5 boosted car is so heavy.

I was talking to Korey earlier about 1 class vs. 2. I really like driving two classes. I get more wheel time, which I think is important. Driving the slower class lets me work on clean lines, concentration skills, and consistency. Driving the faster class (17.5 or 13.5 boosted) lets me work on throttle and brake control a bit more, as well as reflexes with a car that's much more responsive. At the Hangar, I found that driving SS made me do better in 17.5, but driving 17.5 also made me do better in SS.

But from a setup standpoint, it's definitely harder to try as many things, nevermind keeping a consistent setup, when I'm running 2 classes and there's only 6 heats. So I'm kinda torn. :/

When I've got a 2-week break between race days, my mind starts to wander. I'm at least trying to ask fundamental questions that fall less into the "you just have to try it, then you'll get it" category. Possibly screwed up suspension geometry from really tall tires being one, and a 70g overweight car being another.

I'll work through the changes Ritchie suggested for VTA over the next couple race weekends. I don't want to do it all at once, because that way I won't understand what the changes are doing. I'll probably start with toe, since it seems like the biggest change, then the droop, then the shorter arms, and then the camber links. I'll have to get some more oils to play with the diffs.

If I make it down to FW, I'd be happy to have you look over my cars and take them for a spin. I always like to have better drivers drive my car, watching how they drive it, and hearing the lap times that are faster than mine, so I know what I'm leaving on the table without even changing anything. But I don't know if I'll make it down there. Think you'll ever make it up to Fasttrax?

-Mike
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:39 AM   #2854
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Originally Posted by lochness42 View Post
Try to get in touch with Schumacher, maybe there is currently bad batch of plastic. I didn't have any probs with spurs apart from stripping some due to my mistake - motor came loose or some dirt getting into teeth. But someone else asked me about same problem as you've got yesterday. Guys in Schumacher are very helpful so try them.
Will try to, they have suspended new registrations on thier forum so cant go that route
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:03 AM   #2855
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There is contact email on web page http://www.racing-cars.com/sitepage/contactpage.html
Give it a try.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:07 PM   #2856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
In this post:
Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Ritchie said his new Mi4CX came in at 1295 grams, with everything including the body clips.

My TC is just shy of 1450g.

WTF?

- Thick-weight body is good for ~30g, maybe up to 40g.
- Twin point steering adds about 7g.
- Aluminum pivot blocks add 15g.
- The Viper VTX10R is pretty heavy. I'm guessing around 15g heavier than a Tekin RS, since my car weighed in around 1420 with plastic blocks and the Tekin. I'm not sure what Ritchie was running, but it probably wasn't as light as the Tekin
- The TP 65c battery I have is pretty heavy, around 310g, while an older 5000mah would be more like 295g. Again, I don't know what he had in his car.

The CX spool is a few grams lighter, but the rear diff is actually a few grams heavier, so that's a draw. Side Note: the Spec-R diff with 80wt Losi oil weighs .1g less than a CX diff!

I can't imagine the CX diff holders and retaining posts shaved more than a couple grams. And as far as I know, the rest of the car is the same. Steel axles might even be heavier, I haven't weighed them yet.

I weighed my LP bulkheads and layshaft mounts at about 75g. How much lighter are the CX ones?

I just can't wrap my head around how his car was that light.

So to sum up, I can see losing the following:
15g pivot blocks
7g steering
30g body
15g (?) ESC
15g older/lighter battery
= 82 grams

That would put me at 1368... That's a full ~70g heavier. And if I didn't swap ESC and battery, I'd still be right around 1400, which is 20g over minimum.

-Mike
what about tires, what tires did i have, how many coats of paint on the body, did I have a full size or a short servo, was it a metal gear servo or plastic gear. did i use the schumacher screws or switch to the du bro brand which fit the chassis better. was my wing painted. which body was it, do they all weigh the same between models/brands

like i said on the other thread, get over the weight thing. what my car weighed when it was finished and what weight I actually race it is two entirely different animals.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:01 PM   #2857
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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
like i said on the other thread, get over the weight thing. what my car weighed when it was finished and what weight I actually race it is two entirely different animals.


I'm not suggesting you ran an underweight car. I wouldn't think of it. I'm just trying to understand: Is the CX is lighter? How much lighter is it? Where are the weight savings coming from?

Are you seriously suggesting that taking 70 out of a TC isn't going to make a difference to its performance? I readily noticed an extra 21g (granted, all on the front) when I had to weight my car down for the one event I ran 21.5 TC.

-Mike
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Old 07-06-2011, 03:26 PM   #2858
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I'm sure you would notice 21 grams on the nose, but what's wrong with placing that 21 Grams down the center under the belt towards the rear, where your car would work better and you wouldn't notice it......

And yes my cx is lighter then my lp, where I don't know, I didn't weigh each p
art. But if I had to guess, most of it is in the bulk heads and spool.

And I can't say for sure, but that 1295 may have included the losi lipo I was using. I don't remember. Was their a picture of it with the post.

As far as the 70 grams, I'm not saying it won't make a performance difference, I'm saying it does not always mean a negative difference.

FW summer sizzler I ran T/A at least 70 grams over weight and.still took TQ and the win. Reedy I was at least 50 grams over weight and made the a.
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Last edited by skypilot; 07-06-2011 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:19 PM   #2859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
In this post:
Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Ritchie said his new Mi4CX came in at 1295 grams, with everything including the body clips.

My TC is just shy of 1450g.

WTF?

- Thick-weight body is good for ~30g, maybe up to 40g.
- Twin point steering adds about 7g.
- Aluminum pivot blocks add 15g.
- The Viper VTX10R is pretty heavy. I'm guessing around 15g heavier than a Tekin RS, since my car weighed in around 1420 with plastic blocks and the Tekin. I'm not sure what Ritchie was running, but it probably wasn't as light as the Tekin
- The TP 65c battery I have is pretty heavy, around 310g, while an older 5000mah would be more like 295g. Again, I don't know what he had in his car.

The CX spool is a few grams lighter, but the rear diff is actually a few grams heavier, so that's a draw. Side Note: the Spec-R diff with 80wt Losi oil weighs .1g less than a CX diff!

I can't imagine the CX diff holders and retaining posts shaved more than a couple grams. And as far as I know, the rest of the car is the same. Steel axles might even be heavier, I haven't weighed them yet.

I weighed my LP bulkheads and layshaft mounts at about 75g. How much lighter are the CX ones?

I just can't wrap my head around how his car was that light.

So to sum up, I can see losing the following:
15g pivot blocks
7g steering
30g body
15g (?) ESC
15g older/lighter battery
= 82 grams

That would put me at 1368... That's a full ~70g heavier. And if I didn't swap ESC and battery, I'd still be right around 1400, which is 20g over minimum.

-Mike
There can be a good amount in the chassis, if its thinner, a different weave, narrower, more cutouts, etc.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:23 PM   #2860
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Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
There can be a good amount in the chassis, if its thinner, a different weave, narrower, more cutouts, etc.
Hrm. As far as I know, the CX chassis is identical to the LP, just with 4 more bulkhead screw holes, and a couple extra screw holes around the servo. My car has a 2mm chassis.

-Mike
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:11 PM   #2861
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maybe it was this...
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Schumacher Mi4-51311-005.jpg  
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:45 PM   #2862
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maybe it was this...
That's interesting. Amain lists that battery as 200.5g. It would certainly explain why the car was so light. I don't remember your car looking like that at the ECC, but I might have overlooked it. I remember a lot of weights on your car, though. Was that something you threw together as an experiment, or did you actually race it that way?

-Mike
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:54 PM   #2863
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I raced it at Reedy that way. but with a Novak ESC instead of SP and lots o weight oh and a DNA2 body, I don't remember 100% but I think I only ran the car one heat at the ECC, I was saving it for carpet nats,

for some reason my memory is failing me, now that I think about it, I don't think I had that layout until Reedy, cause thats when Rich sent schumacher a picture of it, I think, I'm sure he remembers better.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:14 AM   #2864
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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
maybe it was this...
I got some of those LiPo's, was due to run them in my GT car (1s chassis with 2s cell) but the class died at my track before I got a chance.

Has now got me thinking

Just wondering if it would last a run with a 13.5 as I take around 2000 out of a 5600 50c pack ?

added:
It would drop my car weight in race mode from 1412g to 1323g
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:31 AM   #2865
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I raced it at Reedy that way. but with a Novak ESC instead of SP and lots o weight oh and a DNA2 body, I don't remember 100% but I think I only ran the car one heat at the ECC, I was saving it for carpet nats,

for some reason my memory is failing me, now that I think about it, I don't think I had that layout until Reedy, cause thats when Rich sent schumacher a picture of it, I think, I'm sure he remembers better.
skypilot, you raced this at the reedy race of champions, i can also tell you that my car lacked the steering i had with your car. i then placed weights torward the back of car, along the center line, and the steering really came alive. i dont care what the car weighs, as long as it works,,,,i dont see the additional weight as being detrimental to the cars overall speed.

rich
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