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Old 06-14-2010, 03:44 PM   #1951
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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
you need to try and make down to FW on a sunday so we can talk and I can check out your car
Yeah, I do. My wife will be in Hong Kong for all of September, so I imagine you'll see me then if it doesn't happen sooner.

I think I've finally gotten the car broken in, though. I gave it a rough day on Saturday, and it stood up well. I didn't break anything on it. I lost one screw and cone washer from the top deck (had a spare), and found the rear shock tower hanging on by a thread after one run. So I tightened things down again, and overall the car held together just fine. It's easier to stay off the boards up at EGTC's new site than at the Hangar, but I still crashed plenty with lots of carwheeling and trips into "Sherwood Forest".

I'm at a stage where I need to start learning how to set it up, though. The Jaco blues were definitely not working, especially with Paragon. They'd give me my best time around lap 5 or so, then I'd get about a second slower, and much sloppier, not all of which was brain fade. I've got some Sweep 40 somethings (Todd's suggestion) and some Sweep 36's on the yellow wheels (Korey's suggestion) on the way for experimentation, as well as some of Sweep's sauce that said it was best for outdoor asphalt.

But that leads into my question for today...

If I were to do some setup work on my car in the parking garage at work (which is dirty concrete) with the Jaco's, how should I expect the handling of the car to change when I put it on stickier asphalt with stickier tires? Is it impossible to tell, or will some of the setup translate? Some things in particular I want to experiment with are seeing how the car reacts to less rear toe, less droop, and different springs.

-Mike

Last edited by grippgoat; 06-14-2010 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:56 PM   #1952
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Yeah, I do. My wife will be in Hong Kong for all of September, so I imagine you'll see me then if it doesn't happen sooner.

I think I've finally gotten the car broken in, though. I gave it a rough day on Saturday, and it stood up well. I didn't break anything on it. I lost one screw and cone washer from the top deck (had a spare), and found the rear shock tower hanging on by a thread after one run. So I tightened things down again, and overall the car held together just fine. It's easier to stay off the boards up at EGTC's new site than at the Hangar, but I still crashed plenty with lots of carwheeling and trips into "Sherwood Forest".

I'm at a stage where I need to start learning how to set it up, though. The Jaco blues were definitely not working, especially with Paragon. They'd give me my best time around lap 5 or so, then I'd get about a second slower, and much sloppier, not all of which was brain fade. I've got some Sweep 40 somethings (Todd's suggestion) and some Sweep 36's on the yellow wheels (Korey's suggestion) on the way for experimentation, as well as some of Sweep's sauce that said it was best for outdoor asphalt.

But that leads into my question for today...

If I were to do some setup work on my car in the parking garage at work (which is dirty concrete) with the Jaco's, how should I expect the handling of the car to change when I put it on stickier asphalt with stickier tires? Is it impossible to tell, or will some of the setup translate? Some things in particular I want to experiment with are seeing how the car reacts to less rear toe, less droop, and different springs.

-Mike
I notice tire fade with the Jaco Blues as well. Even on carpet they seem to act this way. Also, you could just be getting the tire too hot, as they are a softer tire than most guys run on asphalt.

Also, with the Sweep X2 sauce, less is better. The more you put on the longer it seems to take for the tires to start to come in, but when they come in, the car is on rails.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:52 PM   #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Yeah, I do. My wife will be in Hong Kong for all of September, so I imagine you'll see me then if it doesn't happen sooner.

I think I've finally gotten the car broken in, though. I gave it a rough day on Saturday, and it stood up well. I didn't break anything on it. I lost one screw and cone washer from the top deck (had a spare), and found the rear shock tower hanging on by a thread after one run. So I tightened things down again, and overall the car held together just fine. It's easier to stay off the boards up at EGTC's new site than at the Hangar, but I still crashed plenty with lots of carwheeling and trips into "Sherwood Forest".

I'm at a stage where I need to start learning how to set it up, though. The Jaco blues were definitely not working, especially with Paragon. They'd give me my best time around lap 5 or so, then I'd get about a second slower, and much sloppier, not all of which was brain fade. I've got some Sweep 40 somethings (Todd's suggestion) and some Sweep 36's on the yellow wheels (Korey's suggestion) on the way for experimentation, as well as some of Sweep's sauce that said it was best for outdoor asphalt.

But that leads into my question for today...

If I were to do some setup work on my car in the parking garage at work (which is dirty concrete) with the Jaco's, how should I expect the handling of the car to change when I put it on stickier asphalt with stickier tires? Is it impossible to tell, or will some of the setup translate? Some things in particular I want to experiment with are seeing how the car reacts to less rear toe, less droop, and different springs.

-Mike
Are you using the white or black can of paragon? I have never liked the black on asphalt, tire tweak 2000 is an excellent all around compound. Every surface is going to make the car do different things, even asphalt that looks the same can have vast traction differences. If you can I'd find a lot that was recently paved, this will have the most consistent traction. I'm currently in that predicament with no local place to practice and try setup changes, and race day always seems so short even with a few hours of practice

New jaco blues suck, sweep exp 36, solaris hard's are good premounts we have been running locally.
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:55 PM   #1954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny-b23
I notice tire fade with the Jaco Blues as well. Even on carpet they seem to act this way. Also, you could just be getting the tire too hot, as they are a softer tire than most guys run on asphalt.
The surface temp was north of 100*F. I think it might have been closer to 120*F. I should write these things down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny-b23
Also, with the Sweep X2 sauce, less is better. The more you put on the longer it seems to take for the tires to start to come in, but when they come in, the car is on rails.
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Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
Are you using the white or black can of paragon? I have never liked the black on asphalt, tire tweak 2000 is an excellent all around compound.
I'm using the black can (I think it). It's not the FX-II, which at least one person said is much better on asphalt. Multiple people said the black is just too agressive for the surface or temp (not sure which).

I bought the X3, mostly just to try. Korey Harbke mentioned with the Sweep stuff to just take a few drops with a screwdriver and spread it around. Korey also said Tire Tweak (that's Trinity, right?) helps keep tires cool.

The track is pretty abrasive, and Sweep's site said X2 works well on smooth asphalt. We're not bumpy, just abrasive, so I don't know if it qualifies. We'll see how it goes. I was getting some fine cracks or graining (still not sure which) where the shoulder rounds over, but if I added camber, it seemed like it was trying to wear the inside edges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
Every surface is going to make the car do different things, even asphalt that looks the same can have vast traction differences. If you can I'd find a lot that was recently paved, this will have the most consistent traction. I'm currently in that predicament with no local place to practice and try setup changes, and race day always seems so short even with a few hours of practice
It'd be nice to get a setup that'll work well on race day, but I'm mostly just interested in getting a feel for how the car responds to adjustments, starting with the basics.

-Mike
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:52 PM   #1955
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Ive gone down to 35wt all round, using shcumacher white and blue at the moment.

Ordered some HARA springs so waiting on them, Felt alittle better but its still breaking away on the rear, really hard to get on the power and is so unstable, slightest touch and it spins out !

seems ok for half the lap then it just tends to break away at the rear

Shocks are layed in on the rear.

I havent got tyre warmers either.

Anythink else i can do ? I have both roll bars connected.

do i need any upgrade parts, if it was stable it would help !
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:38 AM   #1956
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Originally Posted by finch View Post
Ive gone down to 35wt all round, using shcumacher white and blue at the moment.

Ordered some HARA springs so waiting on them, Felt alittle better but its still breaking away on the rear, really hard to get on the power and is so unstable, slightest touch and it spins out !

seems ok for half the lap then it just tends to break away at the rear

Shocks are layed in on the rear.

I havent got tyre warmers either.

Anythink else i can do ? I have both roll bars connected.

do i need any upgrade parts, if it was stable it would help !
Hi Finch.

I was having similar problems but after reading a few pages here I was able to get the rear of the car more planted.

Was really only 2 things I changed based on advice on this forum. 1) Stood up my rear shocks. I know everyone says to lay down the shocks for a softer (and hopefully grippier) rear but my local outdoor track has some tight hairpin turns. I was getting good initial grip then the rear would break mid corner. Standing the shocks up (im currently using same weight oil and shocks as you) made the rear a lot more progressive. Current set up is with the shock on second from top on the tower and outside mount on the arm.

The other change I made was run a 2 mm link washer under the bracket rather than 1 mm that was suggested on one of the set up sheets in the book.

Im sure there are multiple things you could try to solve the grip issues. These things seemed to work for me.

Good luck

Simon
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:29 AM   #1957
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Will give this a try on friday to see what affects it has.

We dont have enough time to mess with set up while there as there is only 3 heats running !
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:55 AM   #1958
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Another thing to try to tighten the car up on mid and exit is widen the front. Put .5mm or 1mm shims on wheel hexes. I always do this 1st before standing the shocks up.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:44 AM   #1959
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I just got my replacement card today. I'm going to send them a email on Monday about the problem.
Did you get a reply?
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:41 PM   #1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finch View Post
Ive gone down to 35wt all round, using shcumacher white and blue at the moment.

Ordered some HARA springs so waiting on them, Felt alittle better but its still breaking away on the rear, really hard to get on the power and is so unstable, slightest touch and it spins out !

seems ok for half the lap then it just tends to break away at the rear

Shocks are layed in on the rear.

I havent got tyre warmers either.

Anythink else i can do ? I have both roll bars connected.

do i need any upgrade parts, if it was stable it would help !
I would add a bit more droop all around if the car feels unstable. This will let the car roll more and create more traction.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:29 PM   #1961
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Originally Posted by Danny-b23 View Post
I would add a bit more droop all around if the car feels unstable. This will let the car roll more and create more traction.
How do you know when you have too much droop? I've got about as much as I can get without the springs going slack.

-Mike
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Old 06-15-2010, 06:25 PM   #1962
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
How do you know when you have too much droop? I've got about as much as I can get without the springs going slack.

-Mike
Well then you might have too much. If the car is transferring so much weight so freely, then the tires may be the things that are actually letting you down. I would try going to 2 or 3 millimeters of uptravel front and rear.
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Old 06-16-2010, 01:50 AM   #1963
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Hi guys,
just bought an Mi4LP pro. Not to many here in New Zealand. I love this car looks awesome and i pretty much have it setup like Graingers setup in the instruction book.
The car is setup how i like to drive.
Im running in 13.5 superstock.
car is so quick its insane. just off mod pace.
I have no real knowledge of setting up cars.
half way through a sweeper holding full the rear tends to let go a little.
Have been told to put a little more droop in it.
Im thinking that the ride hight may be a little high too. This would also make tail come around a little?

Cheers guys
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:06 AM   #1964
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Originally Posted by Prommy View Post
Hi guys,
just bought an Mi4LP pro. Not to many here in New Zealand. I love this car looks awesome and i pretty much have it setup like Graingers setup in the instruction book.
The car is setup how i like to drive.
Im running in 13.5 superstock.
car is so quick its insane. just off mod pace.
I have no real knowledge of setting up cars.
half way through a sweeper holding full the rear tends to let go a little.
Have been told to put a little more droop in it.
Im thinking that the ride hight may be a little high too. This would also make tail come around a little?

Cheers guys
you may want to check the bottom of your chassis. if the car leans too much, the bottom may scrape on the track. this causes the rear to let go. a fix may be sway bars, or just go to stiffer sway bars, different shock positions on the shock tower, or even just go to the next stiffer spring in the rear.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:08 PM   #1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prommy View Post
Hi guys,
just bought an Mi4LP pro. Not to many here in New Zealand. I love this car looks awesome and i pretty much have it setup like Graingers setup in the instruction book.
The car is setup how i like to drive.
Im running in 13.5 superstock.
car is so quick its insane. just off mod pace.
I have no real knowledge of setting up cars.
half way through a sweeper holding full the rear tends to let go a little.
Have been told to put a little more droop in it.
Im thinking that the ride hight may be a little high too. This would also make tail come around a little?

Cheers guys
We have found the grainger setup pretty good...HPI silver springs all round,try droop 4/4
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