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Old 12-02-2003, 05:08 AM   #376
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The flight from cleveland was delayed to Washington, so missed the plane and is not yet home. I will ask him tomorrow.
Apart from that, I think he did quite well as this was his first ever atempt with foamtires. But he is very eager to do better at the Snowbirds
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Old 12-02-2003, 05:15 AM   #377
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As for Josh and his finish. I am not surprised about it. The guy jut started a new company, Designed a new car and body, and joined a new team. All this in the last few weeks. As for having a bad finish he was in the a main right, With a car he hasnt tested much for a TC and a 12th scale he just finished designing and building. I would be saying "look out this guy is gonna put the hurting on some people when it all comes together".
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Old 12-02-2003, 06:18 AM   #378
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Stormperson, I think you are participating in Cleveland indoor right? How did you do?
I wish I were there, but what can I do I am too far away!
It will take at least 35 hours by flight!
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Old 12-02-2003, 06:23 AM   #379
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You will need Divx 5.0+ to watch it. Here is the link to download the free/ad free of newest codec http://download.divx.com/divx/DivX511Bundle.exe
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Old 12-02-2003, 07:02 AM   #380
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Thanks that worked. Wow its pretty obvious Dave was ahead. The problem is that there was no official video as I understand. So to use someone elses video might be considered wrong. So why did the transponder score it the other way? I just hope someone looks into this and does something to make sure it doesnt happen again. Mistakes arent so bad as long as we learn from them. There is so much on the line nowdays at these events that there has to be less room for error. And that obviously wasnt the case here. Dave doesnt need this win for all of us to know that he is one of the best but, it is a big loss for Josh this win being recorded could have helped him and his new company slingshot out of the door. Wich I think it will anyhow. Congratulations to both of them, hard work pays off.
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Old 12-02-2003, 07:11 AM   #381
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Tony George must be involved.
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Old 12-02-2003, 07:47 AM   #382
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Snowbirds will defently be quite a race to watch.

As far as the scoring, that software came out when the Model T came off the production line. They had at least half a dozen dead heats that I heard of and probably more that I didnt.

They defently need to get a PC that doesnt run DOS and a recent program that allows personal's since tech always got backed up as well since they could only tech a race ahead of time since they didnt have enough transponders to give out. I hear alot of changes might be in the works for next year, so we'll see...
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Old 12-02-2003, 08:34 AM   #383
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didnt any one catch it at the end and protest it. come on if you are watching the race from the side line you can visually tell who won. iam an associated fan but feel that a wrong was done sphashette diffenatly was the winner.
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Old 12-02-2003, 08:46 AM   #384
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Quote:
boner You will need Divx 5.0+ to watch it. Here is the link to download the free/ad free of newest codec http://download.divx.com/divx/DivX511Bundle.exe
its really not ad free, it has Gain on it which is a bad ad progrma and is spyware as far as i'm concerind. You have to go find it and delate it when your done using it or just try to get rid of the GAIN or Gator. Just thought you should all know
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Old 12-02-2003, 09:49 AM   #385
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That checkered tape was not the scoring loop. It was actually 3' back up the track. The checkered tape was to let people know they were lining up too close to the starting loop. So the race ended up 3' back from there. At only ..04 seconds difference it is probably likely that Orr's transponder counted first. There was quite a difference in speed so it made it really hard to judge. Kinda like the first base thing. That's the second time in as many USTC races that this has happened. Maybe it is time to update this part of our racing system and let the controversy stop.
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Old 12-02-2003, 09:52 AM   #386
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Default Great info!!!

Heres some great info from Hank over at Hobbytalk.

The power output of the transponder makes no difference. What happens when you cross the loop is the time is recorded when the transponder is first picked up. The "counts" of the transponder are recorded as it passes over the loop. The counts are then devided in half and added to the time when the first count is recorded. This way the center of the detection is found which is where the start/finish line should be (in the middle of the loop.

As an example:
Each count (as an example) is spaced .001 second apart. The car starts picking up at 27.500 seconds. The count is 68. Half of 68 is 34 so .034 is added to 27.500 to get you a lap time of 27.534

The same lap with a weaker transponder:
Each count (as an example) is spaced .001 second apart. The car starts picking up at 27.522 seconds. The start time will later because the transponder is weaker and the detection starts later in the loop. The count is 24 (again because the signal is weaker). Half of 24 is 12 so .012 is added to 27.522 to get you a lap time of 27.534

This is the same system that is used in F1, NASCAR and Kart racing and has been proven to be very accurate. All other transponder type timing systems use the same method and I'd go so far as to say it is an international standard.
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Old 12-02-2003, 10:50 AM   #387
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That doesn't make sense; you would need to know the counts from crossing the second wire, subtract the counts from crossing the first wire,.....then take half of the THAT and add it to the first time. The initial count numbers are totally arbitrary and there is no way that what he described is the acceptable method.

For example: car crosses the first wire at 25.000 seconds and the count is 68, then crosses the second wire and the count is 100. 100-68=32. 32/2=16. Add .016 to 25.000=25.016 seconds as time the car crossed the finish line.
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Old 12-02-2003, 12:00 PM   #388
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That there's one reason why I don't think I've ever missed anything by not going to Cleveland...old equipment, single race mains and controversy every year.

I just watched the frame by frame video again - no matter where the finish line or loop is, David was ahead of John for at least 10-15 feet before the curved section of board (presumably where the checkered tape was).

People I know that were at the race saw video camera owners showing the race "officials" the tapes they'd JUST made and David was still not declared the winner. With this much of a huge controversy still 2 days after the race, there's no more "saving face" for the officials.

Lame!
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Old 12-02-2003, 12:02 PM   #389
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Still having trouble seeing the video. I did download the latest version of divx for Mac and I can only get sound. Can any one email a non divx version to [email protected] . thanx
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Old 12-02-2003, 12:05 PM   #390
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If you look closely in this picture:
http://www.rctech.net/events/clevela...00/crowd_2.jpg

You can see pretty clearly where the "marked" start/finish line is. I'd have to say it looks like David is ahead of Jon.

I think there's no winner in all of this. It sucks for David because it looks like he won, it sucks for Jon because people will not give him the boatload of credit he deserves for TQing and being where he was at the end in an awesome performance, and it sucks for the 'Champs because, like Frank said, it ends in controversy instead of celebration.

Still, I think you absolutely have to go with the timing equipment. You can't suddenly use a photo to determine a winner in the last race out of 51! Hopefully they will take this into account next year (somehow).
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