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Old 07-02-2009, 05:26 PM   #1201
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So, a suggestion...

How about a longer servo mount? Many of us run the short servos, and longer mounts (much longer than the longest option in the kit) could give us the ability to push the shorter servo closer to the edge of the chassis. This would enable us to run the servo in the forward holes, giving us much-needed space for our electronics, and won't require you to take a live beaver to the corner of your servo to prevent the arm from rubbing. It also seems to still maintain decent alignment between the servo horn and arm on the steering assembly.

Also, in aluminum would be great.
I added 6mm spacers to the long servo mount to run the servo saver. Everything lined up and it didn't require any modification to the servo (just).
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:54 PM   #1202
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I added 6mm spacers to the long servo mount to run the servo saver. Everything lined up and it didn't require any modification to the servo (just).
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:16 PM   #1203
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Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking with that suggestion. You guys really set me straight, thanks.
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Old 07-02-2009, 07:04 PM   #1204
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syndr0me - Honestly, I wasn't worried so much about the perfect fit of the larger servos as I know some people will use no servo saver and some will. Also, the offsets on the servos are all different so at least if I made the mounts inboard enough then you could just use spacers - It's hard to make everything exactly perfect for so many different makes of servos. I understand what you mean though and I'm sure we will keep it in mind for after market parts when we evaluate things down the road.

Also, I had a little idea that I knew would start to come into play once I pushed the envelope on it - At the Reedy Race, I actually used KO's 951 1/12 servo in my TC. This servo is almost as strong as and much faster than the KO Low Profile servo so I wanted to try this concept. The 951 is shorter than the bell crank (so no problem with clearance), you can mount it in/forward hole position and makes the motor side of the chassis much lighter so it's easier to balance for Lipo's. The servo actually held up and ran awesome at the Reedy Race with the exception that it would break the pin location boss if I had a big impact (without using a servo saver). I wanted to test/prove that this concept would work to KO if there was a little done to strenghten the weak link in the servo for TC racing as it has several benifits. After seeing the results and how well it worked I know it was reported back to KO so maybe they will beef up the case or add the brass bushing as in the other/beefer large servos. Using this size servo as more of a standard may come into play which would be awesome to be able to use the same servo for 1/12, 1/10 and TC!! Again, I wanted to think further forward with the development of the car reaching beyond even the electronics that are currently available to push the limits so we can lead the way over the coming years. Trust me, I want TOP and all the racers running TOP to have an edge.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:03 PM   #1205
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So far, I've prefered the shorter bell crank (21mm) with 9-10 for the ackerman insert as it gives good initial steering and good low speed steering without over heating the front tires so much. Also, this combination is quite close to the ackerman data generated from the 416 I was able to guess some dimensions off of....
Interesting comment about matching the 416 ackerman. How many mm of 416 ackerman spacers was that calculation based on? The kit ran 3mm with the 1-way but 5mm was basically the defacto standard setting when using a spool
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:12 AM   #1206
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Hi,

Can anyone tell me which is the internal ratio and which caster blocks come with the kit?

thanks
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:10 AM   #1207
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Internal is 40/20=2.0

4 degree caster blocks
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:31 AM   #1208
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Craig - Honestly, I don't remember. I tried to jot down a bunch of dimensions from all the different cars out there and then throw them into a file to generate the steering ackerman paths. I just measured these up off of people's cars at the local tracks (I don't have a Tamiya car here) so again, it was just an estimated guess. I do remember looking at some different set-up sheets and checking the mm of shims used and making a few different paths based on that to make sure our system covered the range that they would use but I don't remember exactly what shims equaled what with our system. It was just basically to make sure we had the range of adjustability to have the same/more than all the cars combined out on the market.
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:39 AM   #1209
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Craig - Honestly, I don't remember. I tried to jot down a bunch of dimensions from all the different cars out there and then throw them into a file to generate the steering ackerman paths. I just measured these up off of people's cars at the local tracks (I don't have a Tamiya car here) so again, it was just an estimated guess. I do remember looking at some different set-up sheets and checking the mm of shims used and making a few different paths based on that to make sure our system covered the range that they would use but I don't remember exactly what shims equaled what with our system. It was just basically to make sure we had the range of adjustability to have the same/more than all the cars combined out on the market.
The #ed blocks 9,10,11,12, make more difference than the numbers show. In feel anyways. I would have liked to see the #'s further on in deflection. Like 30, 35.... 45 would have been the upper limit I think.

I'm running 4mm of spacer and a one way .. the spool is just too tough on the parts inventory. I will have to measure the total length from center pivot to center line of the pivot ball. (416)
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Old 07-03-2009, 08:09 AM   #1210
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Hey John - The steering stops are at 30 degrees so really anything beyond this is mute anyway.... Yes, the different #'s make a big difference. EJ couldn't believe the difference they made and was asking for a 9.5 at the Reedy Race...lol..
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Old 07-03-2009, 08:31 AM   #1211
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So, the way I understand how to test/set sway bars is basically what David Jun talks about here.

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Sway bars are a nice way to control weight transfer. If you decide to use them, begin by disconnecting them and remove your shocks. Then set your droop or just make the axle heights equal. Your suspension is now equal and you can connect the sway bars. To set them, slowly compress either arm as you watch the other to see the amount of free play before the opposite arm rises. More than likely, one side will have more free play than the other so you want to adjust the length of the linkage rods accordingly until the amount of free play is equal. You can also adjust the free play on the sway bar mounts as well by rotating the sway bar clips enough to reduce slop. Just don't go overboard.
Is this the preferred method on the TOP? I ask, because I'm having trouble with the sways on this car. It seems like, at least with the kit settings, I can't even make them lift the other side at all, especially in the front. Is there something else I should be doing? I have the "groove" in the mounts in the down position, which I believe is what the manual specifies.
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:02 AM   #1212
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
So, the way I understand how to test/set sway bars is basically what David Jun talks about here.



Is this the preferred method on the TOP? I ask, because I'm having trouble with the sways on this car. It seems like, at least with the kit settings, I can't even make them lift the other side at all, especially in the front. Is there something else I should be doing? I have the "groove" in the mounts in the down position, which I believe is what the manual specifies.

This is my first stint with sway bars so I'm pretty noobish here, but i'm having the exact same problems as Syndrome..
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:32 AM   #1213
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Hey John - The steering stops are at 30 degrees so really anything beyond this is mute anyway.... Yes, the different #'s make a big difference. EJ couldn't believe the difference they made and was asking for a 9.5 at the Reedy Race...lol..
Is the total amount 60 degrees ? I never took a protractor to it .
But I have measured up to 28 degrees at the wheel with considerable amounts of Ackerman. Judging by those numbers I's have to say more like 35 degrees of servo movement. Those figures are the amount of degree angle of Ackerman at said input, right?
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:35 AM   #1214
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syndr0me - That's pretty much how I set mine - Disconnect shocks and roll bar - Set droop - Re-connect roll bar and then check the feel. For the Photon's sway bar linkage - I use a 2mm spacer on one side and tighten the ball stud to the spacer/ball cup. On the other side - I glue the set-screw into the ball stud and do not use the 2mm spacer. This way, I can use either a 3mm (for the ball stud) or a 1.5mm (in the set-screw) to adjust the lenght of the sway bar linkage to adjust the feel of the sway bar.

Maybe I'll have to set-up a camera here and make some videos of setting up/tuning the different parts of the car....
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:38 AM   #1215
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Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
syndr0me - That's pretty much how I set mine - Disconnect shocks and roll bar - Set droop - Re-connect roll bar and then check the feel. For the Photon's sway bar linkage - I use a 2mm spacer on one side and tighten the ball stud to the spacer/ball cup. On the other side - I glue the set-screw into the ball stud and do not use the 2mm spacer. This way, I can use either a 3mm (for the ball stud) or a 1.5mm (in the set-screw) to adjust the lenght of the sway bar linkage to adjust the feel of the sway bar.

Maybe I'll have to set-up a camera here and make some videos of setting up/tuning the different parts of the car....
That would be very cool !
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