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Old 12-21-2010, 11:26 AM   #6601
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In a previous post i mentioned i bought some new shock shafts that had a greyish look to them. This is a pic of the before and after prep for installation.



Left is out of the package, right is after polishing. The feel of the left one is fairly rough... kinda like 1500 grit sandpaper. After they were finished and installed, they were smooth and leak free.

I also do not cut off the nib at the end of the shaft. Its there so the shaft bottoms out in the shock rod end without a threaded shafts tendency to stretch and deform the plastic near the ball. Yes if you force it in too far, it will deform the rod end, but having the nib lessens the probability if you properly install the shaft.

Also, GS Silicones sells 1/8th silicone o-rings that have identical dimensions as the original o-rings, and are a little more durable. 250 laps on them and no leaks. Just in case some of you might like options...
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:27 AM   #6602
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You don't want to do that they will make you look like a fool. We do have lower grip, and even did some parkinglot races this summer, the fast guys driving their own cars will still be fast.
I just did.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:31 AM   #6603
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Not going to try and say someone is wrong for trying stuff, and if it works for you hey thats all that matters in the end.

I run on about as slickest of carpet you can get on, and I rarely go below a 306 in the rear. I've found going to a softer spring often reduces the grip for me.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:32 AM   #6604
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I'm with Larry on this one guys. While some people think not messing with "other" parts is closed minded... the springs that were made were made for a reason.

I know when we ran Losi cars a couple years back, we ran 12.5, 15, and 17.5lb springs on asphalt. When I saw that the TOP car didn't have anything really lower than a 16lb, I know I was surprised, but found that we don't need that soft of a spring. We've run on just about every type of surface you can think of on just about every grip level there is and never went below a 289g spring. The car rolls a lot as it is and traction can be generated in any number of ways using basic setup knowledge.

You also have to take into consideration, we try not to modify our cars in any way as we run for TOP. We want to provide the public with setups that use TOP parts so it's not a hodge podge of parts from all different manufacturers. That alone makes people think the car is just junk and has to be band-aided with other brand parts. The only real "non TOP" part on our cars are the Spec R front LCDs from a Yokomo BD5 as that's just not a part that TOP makes yet, but are going to make in the future.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:34 AM   #6605
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Dave, what did you use to polish the shafts?
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:36 AM   #6606
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Originally Posted by smoke81 View Post
Not going to try and say someone is wrong for trying stuff, and if it works for you hey thats all that matters in the end.

I run on about as slickest of carpet you can get on, and I rarely go below a 306 in the rear. I've found going to a softer spring often reduces the grip for me.
I initially had the kit springs as my only option. Im no pro driver, but i couldnt get them to work. I would love for someone to come to our track, and get the kit springs to be fast. I seriously wanna see it.

You are right though... if the rear spring is too soft, your car will roll across the rear and lessen your rear grip. Same thing for the front spring, if it is too soft the car will wash out and give you reduced steering... but all of this is again connected to roll center, chassis weight and overall grip.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:38 AM   #6607
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Dave, what did you use to polish the shafts?
Good ol Mothers metal polish.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:45 AM   #6608
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Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
I initially had the kit springs as my only option. Im no pro driver, but i couldnt get them to work. I would love for someone to come to our track, and get the kit springs to be fast. I seriously wanna see it.

You are right though... if the rear spring is too soft, your car will roll across the rear and lessen your rear grip. Same thing for the front spring, if it is too soft the car will wash out and give you reduced steering... but all of this is again connected to roll center, chassis weight and overall grip.
So where is your track at?
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:46 AM   #6609
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Originally Posted by schreff View Post
I'm with Larry on this one guys. While some people think not messing with "other" parts is closed minded... the springs that were made were made for a reason.

I know when we ran Losi cars a couple years back, we ran 12.5, 15, and 17.5lb springs on asphalt. When I saw that the TOP car didn't have anything really lower than a 16lb, I know I was surprised, but found that we don't need that soft of a spring. We've run on just about every type of surface you can think of on just about every grip level there is and never went below a 289g spring. The car rolls a lot as it is and traction can be generated in any number of ways using basic setup knowledge.

You also have to take into consideration, we try not to modify our cars in any way as we run for TOP. We want to provide the public with setups that use TOP parts so it's not a hodge podge of parts from all different manufacturers. That alone makes people think the car is just junk and has to be band-aided with other brand parts. The only real "non TOP" part on our cars are the Spec R front LCDs from a Yokomo BD5 as that's just not a part that TOP makes yet, but are going to make in the future.

Just my 2 cents.
I agree Schreff, as a sponsored driver you are likely encouraged to run the product as is... at events. You cant tell me you guys always run TOP parts and TOP parts alone. The Wiki you guys endorse so much is proof of that in itself.

What about the proliferation of XRAY caster blocks? You mean 4 degrees of caster from TOP isnt ideal for all tracks and surfaces? Hm.

Come on man. I know that as a sponsored driver you are a representaion of the company... a salesman as it were. What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. I understand basic Business, Mechanical Design, and Marketing.

If TOP were MY company... i would have sponsored racers trying new parts and working on setups not only for the fast racers at events, but the locals at club events as well. I mean, if you really wanna get into a Business model discussion, isnt the goal to bring in new blood, and not just sell your products to the same elite few? So, yes... experimentation is key. Development is key. An open mind IS KEY.

Thats my 3 pennies...
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:50 AM   #6610
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Originally Posted by Jaz406 View Post
So where is your track at?
Chesapeake, VA. Schreff and Larry know how to find it. A few of our locals have been to their 'home' asphalt track in Jackson... a grade A facility for sure. Horsham is where they wheel carpet. Our carpet has 1/16th the grip and consistency that track has on its worst day.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:25 PM   #6611
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Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
Chesapeake, VA. Schreff and Larry know how to find it. A few of our locals have been to their 'home' asphalt track in Jackson... a grade A facility for sure. Horsham is where they wheel carpet. Our carpet has 1/16th the grip and consistency that track has on its worst day.
I'll be sure to hurry down to a track that is basically described as basically having awful traction.

Like Schreff said we have races on many more tracks than just 1 on all levels of grip and I have never like anything below a 306 on my car on either end.

You all can do whatever you want with setup, springs, parts or whatever don't let my OPINIONS change your thinking. I was simply stating what I know is fact for me.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:48 PM   #6612
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I'll be sure to hurry down to a track that is basically described as basically having awful traction.

Like Schreff said we have races on many more tracks than just 1 on all levels of grip and I have never like anything below a 306 on my car on either end.

You all can do whatever you want with setup, springs, parts or whatever don't let my OPINIONS change your thinking. I was simply stating what I know is fact for me.
Its no exaggeration... our track is loose, the grip is minimal and inconsistent at best. Honestly, our asphalt track untreated with a weeks worth of dust on it has more grip than our carpet.

I have been VERY open to suggestions from a lot of people since i got this car. (tried your setup, Lessards setup, Munrath's, had input from Tony and some of the other locals that do well with the car) I have even had two people make changes on my car that insisted they could solve the issue... and i NEVER let anyone touch my car. I wish the kit springs worked in my case. It would have solved a lot of this frustration and aggravation i have been through trying to get this thing to grip n rip for me.

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Old 12-21-2010, 12:53 PM   #6613
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I'll be sure to hurry down to a track that is basically described as basically having awful traction.
Hey thats just wrong. We all have hoped you guys would show up one day and put on a driving clinic Over 50% of the cars raced at this track are photons. As you are a TOP sposored driver you just insulted us Just messn with ya. Alot of us were at the east coast race of champions. Jackson is a track I will definately visit a few times in 2011.

Question- Would you run the 289 spring on a extremely low bite track? Or would you use a 306?

The traction at our track is low, but its still fun, and drivable. Would definately like to see you guys make the trip someday.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:57 PM   #6614
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Originally Posted by DaveW View Post
Its no exaggeration... our track is loose, the grip is minimal and inconsistent at best. Honestly, our asphalt track untreated with a weeks worth of dust on it has more grip than our carpet.

I have been VERY open to suggestions from a lot of people since i got this car. (tried your setup, Lessards setup, Munrath's, had input from Tony and some of the other locals that do well with the car) I have even had two people make changes on my car that insisted they could solve the issue... and i NEVER let anyone touch my car. I wish the kit springs worked in my case. It would have solved a lot of this frustration and aggravation i have been through trying to get this thing to grip n rip for me.

If you would run more than 1 degree of rear toe you might find a little more traction Seriusly. My car hooks up good at DRCW. If you put the dremel down and stop thinking a photon will work similar to a tc3/tc4 you "will" find more grip.
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:02 PM   #6615
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Originally Posted by KingKarate757 View Post
If you would run more than 1 degree of rear toe you might find a little more traction Seriusly. My car hooks up good at DRCW. If you put the dremel down and stop thinking a photon will work similar to a tc3/tc4 you "will" find more grip.
The dremel hasnt touched this beauty. Well, the shock shafts for polishing them, but thats it. Im also running a lot more rear toe than before... even a little inboard front toe.

You have the CEFX car though... so its a little different. And trust me, i struggle with resisting the urge to whip out the shaft car.
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