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Old 08-26-2010, 09:29 AM   #5461
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I am picking up a used Photon this weekend that doesn't have any of the updates to it. What will I need to to make this car current? Does the lipo chassis make a difference in the handling? Also, what is a good setup out there for this car? Thanks for any help.
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:43 AM   #5462
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We really need to understand that there is a difference between "grip" and "handling".

People widely confuse the effect of adjustments on "grip" (i.e maximising weight on the tyres) and "handling" (the feel of the car, the "initial grip", the "responsiveness").

Most adjustments that increase grip ALSO make the car feel "sluggish". Most adjusments that make a car feel "responsive" ALSO reduce grip.

This is why we get many posts from accomplished drivers and builders which seem contradictory. Some drivers are tuning for "handling", others are tuning for "grip", that's why you get so many different approaches.

Fast drivers tend to be fast with anything. I'm not a particularly fast driver but my cars drive well. My cars drive well enough for fast drivers to borrow them and knock 0.5sec/lap off my times immediately!

Everyone will have their own approach to setup.

My approach starts with steering lock - I set the car up to turn full circle in the narrowest normal section of the track. I can then click rates up or down from that a little if the car understeers or gets bound up.

I'll usually work from a kit setting unless I feel something is way off (very mismatched wheel rates, weight distribution or geometry)

I'll look at mid-corner balance first, roll-centre and bars have the most discrete effect on that.

Then I'll look at rear traction, spring rates, damping and toe in have a big effect on that. Rarely use anti-squat.

Then I'll look at turn in, front springs and damping have a big effect on that.

There are a whole load of possible adjustments. And there is no substitute for testing them yourself, one adjustment at a time in consistent condition.

That being said, I probably have a slightly different driving style to many, I tend to roll the car through the corners rather point and shoot.

For me, suspension setup is one of the most interesting parts of the hobby. Of course, it is all worthless if you haven't built the car right - thankfully the Photon is very easy to build right. My Scythe has a lot of little tweaks on it to make everything consistent.
Very nice.. and if your learing don't rush it...
Thanks,
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:13 AM   #5463
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Originally Posted by ChadB. View Post
I am picking up a used Photon this weekend that doesn't have any of the updates to it. What will I need to to make this car current? Does the lipo chassis make a difference in the handling? Also, what is a good setup out there for this car? Thanks for any help.
Hi Chad,

Congrats on your purchase!

List of updates I would do:

1) Shocks (Included in the new kits). Slightly different dimensions and tolerances. If you don't want to plunk down the cash on new shocks, just buy the shock shaft guide. It fits the old shocks. Here is the part number #PO-PSH002 Shock Teflon O-Ring Guide for Shock Ver.2 ( 4pcs ) Retail: $7.99

2) Steel or aluminum Spool outdrives.(Steel included in the new kits) might be on the car already.

3) Top deck and camber link plate screws (included in new kits). PA-SCM2607BK Special Countersunk Head Screw M2.6 x 7 ( 8pcs ) Retail: $6.99 you'll need 2 packs.

4) 3mm Ceramic diff balls (not standard, but a very good option to have) PO-CDB312BK 3 millimeter ceramic diff. ball (12pcs) Retail $9.49

Lipo chassis is something you'll want to think about, but not 100% necessary. I think the car still performs well with the 6 cell chassis.

Some other items on the new kit:
- 4th optional setup hole on the rear arm
- Comes with lipo and 6 cell chassis (mentioned above)
- USA EDITION KIT comes with full EXTRA suspension set (F/R Arms, F/R Hubs, steering knuckles)
- New designed top deck
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:50 PM   #5464
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Originally Posted by E.J. Evans View Post
Hi Chad,

Congrats on your purchase!

List of updates I would do:

1) Shocks (Included in the new kits). Slightly different dimensions and tolerances. If you don't want to plunk down the cash on new shocks, just buy the shock shaft guide. It fits the old shocks. Here is the part number #PO-PSH002 Shock Teflon O-Ring Guide for Shock Ver.2 ( 4pcs ) Retail: $7.99

2) Steel or aluminum Spool outdrives.(Steel included in the new kits) might be on the car already.

3) Top deck and camber link plate screws (included in new kits). PA-SCM2607BK Special Countersunk Head Screw M2.6 x 7 ( 8pcs ) Retail: $6.99 you'll need 2 packs.

4) 3mm Ceramic diff balls (not standard, but a very good option to have) PO-CDB312BK 3 millimeter ceramic diff. ball (12pcs) Retail $9.49

Lipo chassis is something you'll want to think about, but not 100% necessary. I think the car still performs well with the 6 cell chassis.

Some other items on the new kit:
- 4th optional setup hole on the rear arm
- Comes with lipo and 6 cell chassis (mentioned above)
- USA EDITION KIT comes with full EXTRA suspension set (F/R Arms, F/R Hubs, steering knuckles)
- New designed top deck
Wow thanks EJ, this helps me a lot as to what to get. What is the drive ratio of the car? What is a good set-up out there that I can start with?
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:23 PM   #5465
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Wow thanks EJ, this helps me a lot as to what to get. What is the drive ratio of the car? What is a good set-up out there that I can start with?
The internal ratio is 2.0 to 1.

The other recommended upgrades would be the aluminum bell crank, unless you never hit anything. I broke about every run until I switched. Even with a servo saver they are a weak point.

And Aluminum rear hubs. I used up all the spares that came with the kit and asked a couple of photon drivers and they told me just get the aluminum ones.

Since these upgrades I have not broken anything else on the car.
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:24 PM   #5466
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Drive ratio 2.0

Site for setups - EJEvans and Fairtrace are good starting setups:

http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/top/...TOPPhoton.html
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:14 PM   #5467
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Originally Posted by ChadB. View Post
I am picking up a used Photon this weekend that doesn't have any of the updates to it. What will I need to to make this car current? Does the lipo chassis make a difference in the handling? Also, what is a good setup out there for this car? Thanks for any help.
Let me know when you get the car Chad. I will help you out at the track. I will be at tz2 all weekend getting ready for IIC. Come up if you get a chance and check it out.
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Old 08-26-2010, 11:39 PM   #5468
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Let me know when you get the car Chad. I will help you out at the track. I will be at tz2 all weekend getting ready for IIC. Come up if you get a chance and check it out.
Thanks Darren. I will try and make it up there.
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:03 AM   #5469
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The internal ratio is 2.0 to 1.

The other recommended upgrades would be the aluminum bell crank, unless you never hit anything. I broke about every run until I switched. Even with a servo saver they are a weak point.

And Aluminum rear hubs. I used up all the spares that came with the kit and asked a couple of photon drivers and they told me just get the aluminum ones.

Since these upgrades I have not broken anything else on the car.
ive done 6 meeting indoors with my photon ( just about to do my 7th tonight ) , ive never broken a steering crank or rear hub , and i hit a few things a night ..

i just make sure the rear hub has the grub screw in the other hole ,and run with a servo saver .....
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:16 AM   #5470
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ive done 6 meeting indoors with my photon ( just about to do my 7th tonight ) , ive never broken a steering crank or rear hub , and i hit a few things a night ..

i just make sure the rear hub has the grub screw in the other hole ,and run with a servo saver .....
Then I just must be lucky. I didn't break a rear hub for a long time, then I broke three in three race days. And Probably running with the grub screw would make it better. I am the only photon at my track and there was no one to suggest it until after the aluminum was already on the car.

The steering crank on the other hand. I didn't even hit the wall hard, just bumped the corner taking it too close and it broke. Even with a saver. In a couple of heats I would just getting bumped by the other cars on the track broke the things. So I have 6 spares and the aluminum one installed.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:49 AM   #5471
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Then I just must be lucky. I didn't break a rear hub for a long time, then I broke three in three race days. And Probably running with the grub screw would make it better. I am the only photon at my track and there was no one to suggest it until after the aluminum was already on the car.

The steering crank on the other hand. I didn't even hit the wall hard, just bumped the corner taking it too close and it broke. Even with a saver. In a couple of heats I would just getting bumped by the other cars on the track broke the things. So I have 6 spares and the aluminum one installed.
Yup, that is the one weak point in the car that I've found. But be careful cuz when you do eventually switch to the aluminum bellcrank, other things will be the weak point, such as the other part of the bellcrank and the steering knuckles, yes I have broken both of those after I've switched to the aluminum piece.
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Old 08-27-2010, 06:54 AM   #5472
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Before going aluminum, I broke 3 plastic bell cranks. Since switching, I have not broken a single thing on this car. I have bent the screws that hold the rear hinge pins in that adjust roll center though. I have to keep a few of those screws handy. The nice thing is though that they bend and nothing brakes. So I am able to finish the race. It's just that the car handles funny.
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Old 08-27-2010, 07:54 AM   #5473
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Does anyone know if the C-Joint blades on the Photon will fit the Scythe?

THX in advance...
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:25 PM   #5474
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Does anyone know if the C-Joint blades on the Photon will fit the Scythe?

THX in advance...
they are the same blades
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Old 08-28-2010, 12:01 AM   #5475
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Anyone selling TOP parts at the IIC?
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