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Old 08-22-2010, 01:04 PM   #5416
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Hey guys,
I'm in the market for a new ride and I'm waiting on the TCX, but have been eyeing this Photon for awhile. Tell me something....any special "massaging" needed to get the car up to speed? And what about maintenance- I've "heard" that the car 'wears out' fairly quickly.
Any thoughts on this?

- JBiz
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:41 PM   #5417
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The only massaging that springs to mind is getting spur gears to fit the layshaft, and shimming the shock pistons.

Otherwise the car goes together very well.

My car has suffered no wear worth noting, although it's only had around 5 hours track time. Others will have had a lot more. No breakages for me either.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:07 PM   #5418
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thanks guys for the input just what i was after

ive just switched from over after many years with xray cars to a photon & i have to admit for me this car is better after only 1 race meet,very happy i made the switch

once again thanks for your input & i"m sure i will ask some more questions

graham
i cant agree anymore , ive made the switch to the photon from a mi4lp ,where as the shuey was always inconsistent and looes on the rear end , the photons the opposite , which is why i love my photon ..

on our current high grip ,tight and twisty carpet track , on one particular corner /chiccane , i have to slow right down to almost a crawl to get it to turn into and back out again , and im not quite sure what to change ...

i dont want it to become twitchy , im thinking i need to play with the roll centres , pretty much everything else has been adjusted slightly from a basic carpet set up ..

apart from that i love the photon

Last edited by shaun207; 08-23-2010 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:08 PM   #5419
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I have only "broken" two things, I pulled the ballstud out of the bellcrank, this was remedied by using a button head instead of the included set screw for the ballstud. I also pulled a set screw out of the rear hub, there are alum hubs available, but I haven't actually broken anything yet.

I really have been liking the car though, its a car that can be driven hard and it doesn't get out of shape. I would say if you want one, get a kit on order today, they haven't been great with keeping up with kit demands, and another shipment is expected this week.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:10 PM   #5420
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i cant agree anymore , ive made the switch to the photon from a mi4lp ,where as the shuey was always inconsistent and looes on the rear end , the photons the opposite ,thats my only complaint i have ..

on our current high grip ,tight and twisty carpet track , on one particular corner /chiccane , i have to slow right down to almost a crawl to get it to turn into and back out again , and im not quite sure what to change ...

i dont want it to become twitchy , im thinking i need to play with the roll centres , pretty much everything else has been adjusted slightly from a basic carpet set up ..

apart from that i love the photon
start with taking out some rear toe.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:29 PM   #5421
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What are the CARPET results with this car? Is there a carpet chassis for this car?
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:32 PM   #5422
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
What are the CARPET results with this car? Is there a carpet chassis for this car?
Larry and Schreff ran it all last season, for rubber they used the foam chassis and top decks. There is a "very stiff" chassis available now, but I think the top deck is still the same as last year, 2.5mm.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:35 PM   #5423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun207 View Post
i cant agree anymore , ive made the switch to the photon from a mi4lp ,where as the shuey was always inconsistent and looes on the rear end , the photons the opposite ,thats my only complaint i have ..

on our current high grip ,tight and twisty carpet track , on one particular corner /chiccane , i have to slow right down to almost a crawl to get it to turn into and back out again , and im not quite sure what to change ...

i dont want it to become twitchy , im thinking i need to play with the roll centres , pretty much everything else has been adjusted slightly from a basic carpet set up ..

apart from that i love the photon
I drive carpet and came from the Mi4LP...mmm it can be rather unpredictable


Here are some ideas

Laying down rear shocks will give more rotation - first thing to try, it only takes a minute and it is a powerful change to make, even 1 hole change

Make sure there is enough rear droop - too little the back will stick

Try outer holes on steering knuckles - outer wheel gains 1 degree at full lock meaning the car will turn tighter and steering more responsive

Softer front spring/oil gives more weight transfer

Softer rears often result in more rotation

Rear toe - but don't go crazy it takes away grip everywhere, you only want less rear grip on corner entry - try 2.5

Change the roll centre - this is an extremely powerful adjustment which changes the whole balance of a car


If I had to choose between the problem of having to take away grip from one end than being unable to find it...I'll take the former
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:54 PM   #5424
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What are the CARPET results with this car? Is there a carpet chassis for this car?
The car is very capable on carpet. Our points season last year was won by STILTSKIN and you could tell how much better it was than the other cars just by watching a single race. His car consistently looked like it had more traction in the corners than the other cars and pretty much every car was represented in our A mains last season.
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:23 PM   #5425
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
What are the CARPET results with this car? Is there a carpet chassis for this car?
Hey JB
If you decided to get the Photon ..use the lipo chassis come with the kit..the 6 cell chassis works great for stock motor asphalt racing ..
the stiffer the chassis make the car react very quickly ...
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:19 PM   #5426
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What are the CARPET results with this car? Is there a carpet chassis for this car?
so far so good
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:30 AM   #5427
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Ran 3 new things Iíve never ran before tonight: Speed Passion 2.1 Prostock ESC with the V3 17.5 motor, Top Photon, and LTC-R body.

Since this is the Photon thread I would like to say Iím very happy with the Photon! I used Larryís (THANK YOU!!!) set up (I bastardized it a bit like using the wrong holes on the arms for the shocks because I didnít want to flip them around when I got them on wrong). I also used the 6-cell chassis plate and not sure if that was right either.

Verdict: car is very smooth and the opposite (but good) experience than my T3Ötoo much grip. And the track isnít even that big with only a 50-60 foot straight. My biggest problem was traction rolling. We had 4 qualifiers so kept changing a few things to see how it went and got better as the evening went by. Change F/R springs 344/306 to 367/324 with extra 1mm shim front wheels, changed droop front and back (forgot which way and can someone explain what increase and decrease grip), changed front sway 1.4 to 1.6, added rear sway bar 1.4. All changes made the car better and eliminated the traction roll but still I didnít push the car too hard either but the wheels stop lifting up after corner apex. I just want a change that can get more off power steering (on initial corner entry but not so much after the apex I over steer. Does that make sense?

I love the photon! Any advice is always appreciate.

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Old 08-23-2010, 02:05 AM   #5428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
I drive carpet and came from the Mi4LP...mmm it can be rather unpredictable


Here are some ideas

Laying down rear shocks will give more rotation - first thing to try, it only takes a minute and it is a powerful change to make, even 1 hole change

Make sure there is enough rear droop - too little the back will stick

Try outer holes on steering knuckles - outer wheel gains 1 degree at full lock meaning the car will turn tighter and steering more responsive

Softer front spring/oil gives more weight transfer

Softer rears often result in more rotation

Rear toe - but don't go crazy it takes away grip everywhere, you only want less rear grip on corner entry - try 2.5

Change the roll centre - this is an extremely powerful adjustment which changes the whole balance of a car


If I had to choose between the problem of having to take away grip from one end than being unable to find it...I'll take the former
Some interesting observations - I don't agree with them all.

Softer/lay-down rear end will generate MORE grip. More droop will generate MORE grip. But, what matters is the feel to you.

The Photon has a slight understeer nature. Personally I think it is the rear hub geometry and the weight distribution that causes it, I don't think it will ever completely go away. But roll centres and rear toe are very powerful adjustments. Also make sure you have the steering geometry set up right - out of the box the car does not generate enough lock to get round tight club tracks.
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:15 AM   #5429
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Good to hear another point of view. I've seen many of your posts and they have been very helpful

I haven't been using this car for too long, and I'm not the most experienced but here's my perception so far, which is always subject to improvement

Generally I've found more rotation by laying down the rear shocks, on every car I have owned, I mean from a default position, and with regard to off power corner entry, not mid corner grip, as it seems to allow the car to react quicker initially

I found standing up the rear shocks forced me to wait too long to get the car to begin rotating, and the front needed more grip/lock to correct this. I found the increased overall grip brought the car almost to a halt in the middle of hairpins, and reckon the extra grip gave overall slower laptimes (carpet)

If you can get the car to initiate the turn quickly you don't need as much steering or even grip to get through the corner, and in theory carry more corner speed. The T3 does this very well, is lively at the back, and is a quick car

I'm looking to control the rate of weight transfer, transfer some but not all the weight quickly, to initiate the turn, so I don't have to wait for the car to begin rotating, and then use the car's mid corner roll/droop to transfer/distibute the remaining weight to generate the grip needed to keep it stable and smooth mid corner so I can get on the power early as possible

If it doesn't work in the end I'll have to try a different approach, so far it does seem good, I've got wicked turn and much more corner speed than I had, I was struggling to match the xray and HB before in this area but now I'm right there giving them a hard time

Right now the problem I have is a little too much (!) steering into slow and medium speed corners, and not enough into high speed corners. Exit steering is absolutely amazing. Looking for the balance here. Got a few things to try this coming week

Suggestions welcome

Still a way to go but progress promising so far
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:53 AM   #5430
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Hi Hana166
Have You tried moving the weight in Your car? Like more weight in the front or the rear of the car? That changes the way Your car is driving a lot. More weight rear gives more steering, but it can be more tricky to drive. (Feels like a more loose rear end)
Maybe You need the opposite but it's worth trying, and very easy.
Try to make Your car wider in the rear, that helps on the big high speed corners
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