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Old 08-17-2010, 06:30 PM   #5341
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Default Un-even Rear Toe Issue again revisited!

My previous post #5334 was an attempt to suggest other possibilities for this Rear Toe discrepiency. Also note that I said that this issue was more profound on the original 2.5mm 6 cell "Slotted" Plate. Without reassembling the car with this plate, and without disassembling the car far enough to get accurate/dependable measurements with Digital Calipers, "I", can tell you all, THAT, I can measure .20mm less distance between the Rear Bulkheads, THUS, suggesting that the Bulkheads are not parallel. And NO, the car has not been severely Crashed, Tweeked, or any such thing.

Ultimately, for me, the solution was as simple as just taking the .40mm shim washer that should be located on the Left Rear corner, (this was the only change I made), and installing it on the Left/Front (of that Rear Arm) location, and thats it! This essentially kicks that Arm back to compensate.
I do realize that this "Issue" could bother some Racers and if so, so be it.

As for me, I will not allow this deter me from enjoying a "Very Good Car"!
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:55 AM   #5342
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Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
Does anyone understand exactly the difference between the top springs gamma beta etc?

I'm looking for a detailed explanation so I can understand when to use what type of spring

So far Xray is my favourite on carpet but I'm looking to expand my experience and knowledge
Gamma is the rubber tyre series.

Alpha/Beta are foam front/rears.

They are wound slightly differently (the Gamma are basically copies of the HPI springs, not sure what the Alpha/Beta are mimicking but they have a smaller internal diameter), but are both linear and should perform according to their rates.

The Gamma springs give ample tuning opportunities for rubber tyres. Here in the UK I've never gone beyond the kit springs or the one rate in between.
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:32 AM   #5343
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Originally Posted by el salvador View Post
My previous post #5334 was an attempt to suggest other possibilities for this Rear Toe discrepiency. Also note that I said that this issue was more profound on the original 2.5mm 6 cell "Slotted" Plate. Without reassembling the car with this plate, and without disassembling the car far enough to get accurate/dependable measurements with Digital Calipers, "I", can tell you all, THAT, I can measure .20mm less distance between the Rear Bulkheads, THUS, suggesting that the Bulkheads are not parallel. And NO, the car has not been severely Crashed, Tweeked, or any such thing.

Ultimately, for me, the solution was as simple as just taking the .40mm shim washer that should be located on the Left Rear corner, (this was the only change I made), and installing it on the Left/Front (of that Rear Arm) location, and thats it! This essentially kicks that Arm back to compensate.
I do realize that this "Issue" could bother some Racers and if so, so be it.

As for me, I will not allow this deter me from enjoying a "Very Good Car"!
I misured distance between Rear Bulkheads, but is parallel...
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:20 AM   #5344
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
Gamma is the rubber tyre series.

Alpha/Beta are foam front/rears.

They are wound slightly differently (the Gamma are basically copies of the HPI springs, not sure what the Alpha/Beta are mimicking but they have a smaller internal diameter), but are both linear and should perform according to their rates.

The Gamma springs give ample tuning opportunities for rubber tyres. Here in the UK I've never gone beyond the kit springs or the one rate in between.
Thanks very much for your answer. Gamma it is then. On with the experiment
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:31 AM   #5345
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Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
Does anyone understand exactly the difference between the top springs gamma beta etc?

I'm looking for a detailed explanation so I can understand when to use what type of spring

So far Xray is my favourite on carpet but I'm looking to expand my experience and knowledge
To be honest in our club most guys use the hpi pro 4 springs. I was using all the Top Racing ones but found it difficult to exchange set ups as the springs are numbered not colored.

The only problem is getting hold of anything from HPI in the uk at the moment.
there is a good exel spreedsheet for the top springs on the Tchub though.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:35 AM   #5346
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I have tried HPI springs and find them no different at all. The top springs are almost exactly the same as hpi springs and the spring rates are very close too.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:43 AM   #5347
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Originally Posted by Luppi Stefano View Post
I misured distance between Rear Bulkheads, but is parallel...
Well then, Feel Free to find another "Rock to Look Under", just "Say'n" what I've found with my Kit! It's probably older than yours. (1st batch)!
I also note, when discussing this issue, (at that Time), with some of my local/more experienced Racers, an opinion offered by one of them was, "This is not so unusual, the early Xray cars had similar issues as well! just adjust the Car as needed".
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:00 AM   #5348
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I have tried HPI springs and find them no different at all. The top springs are almost exactly the same as hpi springs and the spring rates are very close too.
HPI Gold - 344 TOP
HPI Pink - 324 TOP
HPI silver -306 TOP
HPI Blue - 289 TOP
I see Them , Same Colis, Same Long
It's HPI spring!
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:03 AM   #5349
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Originally Posted by el salvador View Post
Well then, Feel Free to find another "Rock to Look Under", just "Say'n" what I've found with my Kit! It's probably older than yours. (1st batch)!
I also note, when discussing this issue, (at that Time), with some of my local/more experienced Racers, an opinion offered by one of them was, "This is not so unusual, the early Xray cars had similar issues as well! just adjust the Car as needed".
thank's for explanation
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:16 AM   #5350
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I have tried HPI springs and find them no different at all. The top springs are almost exactly the same as hpi springs and the spring rates are very close too.
Very useful info. I have Gold and Silver HPI they are good, and have a very different feel to the Xray spring. At some tracks the HPI is better.

Now I can use a black version in exchange which is much nicer I think

I'm doing very well with the car getting in the A all the time now but I reckon I need to rethink my ideas about set up and driving style in order to go to the next level, there is still some way to go to reach the really fast guys

Looking at springs and rollcentres again to find just that little touch of extra cornerspeed. A tiny 0.05 sec faster in 10 corners = half a second - massive

Really studying this now
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:19 AM   #5351
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Originally Posted by Luppi Stefano View Post
HPI Gold - 344 TOP
HPI Pink - 324 TOP
HPI silver -306 TOP
HPI Blue - 289 TOP
I see Them , Same Colis, Same Long
It's HPI spring!
Brilliant, thanks !

Is xray 3.0 close to HPI gold ?
Is xray 2.6 close to HPI silver ?
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:08 AM   #5352
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Brilliant, thanks !

Is xray 3.0 close to HPI gold ?
Is xray 2.6 close to HPI silver ?
yes!
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:58 AM   #5353
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more like silver/blue than gold/silver
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:13 PM   #5354
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Well then, Feel Free to find another "Rock to Look Under", just "Say'n" what I've found with my Kit! It's probably older than yours. (1st batch)!
I also note, when discussing this issue, (at that Time), with some of my local/more experienced Racers, an opinion offered by one of them was, "This is not so unusual, the early Xray cars had similar issues as well! just adjust the Car as needed".
Hey Lyn
Mine is the 1st batch and I was the first one received the kit in the NW and no issued here ...
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:22 PM   #5355
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more like silver/blue than gold/silver
no silver and blue it's similar 2.6 and 2.4
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