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Old 03-14-2009, 09:03 AM   #31
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niznai - The weight tray on the side is to balance the weight left to right. The tray is molded and angled to sit below the top of the chassis and angled so it doesn't touch the track when the car rolls or leans in a corner. The weight sits below the top of the chassis and can be changed easily depending on the pack. The other bonus to this is that you don't have to run as much weight to balance the car which allows the car to be right down on the legal limit. Additionally, unless you are gluing your weights to each lipo pack, the weight trays that sit in the battery slots that others use actually raise the CG of the car since they raise the pack up as well. Taping the weight to the side of the pack again raises the CG so really this is just a nice, clean way of doing everything that's needed along with acting like a guard/locator for the Lipo and lowers the CG.... Seems like a simple advance to me....
Josh, the lipo thing is nice but what about the 5 cell drivers?
In europe we drive 5 cell.
Is it ready for that?
just like the arp plate with the extra holes in it for the tape?
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:10 AM   #32
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Looks like this one has captured rod ends rather than ball cups. Is this accurate?
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:35 AM   #33
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mac853 - The price I am not sure but I know we were shooting to be at/around the TC5 but include the aluminum differentials in the kits. The TOP guys weren't running 415's or 416's. In Hong Kong, a lot of their drivers like the blue annodizing (I though they had Tamiya's also) but they are a small run batch of Scythe's that were Tamiya blue anodized. We spoke about the Photon being blue like this but to copy the Tamiya blue I think would only hurt the image rather than let it stand on it's own.

As far as the Photon being a copy of a Tamiya...lol... Not even close. Everything is different than a Tamiya car - get one and you can check all the measurements. Once we get a chance to post our press release (as it should have been), we will explain all the features and details so that everyone wouldn't just jump on the "it's a copy"....
Really, Ok then!
Maybe they are not totally 100% well done protos, in the case i don't remember at the chassis has LIPO tray.
Then, will the c hub and steering knuckle are from HPI?
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:41 AM   #34
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Really, Ok then!
Maybe they are not totally 100% well done protos, in the case i don't remember at the chassis has LIPO tray.
Then, will the c hub and steering knuckle are from HPI?
No is an own design, but the C hub looks a lot like the Xray C hub.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:14 AM   #35
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No is an own design, but the C hub looks a lot like the Xray C hub.
Ok then, i hope the plastics of this car could be resistable!
Wait, anybody could tell how about the materials of Scythe, please?
1 thing i want to remember, the name typed in body wing of those TOP racing guys is not "Photon", is "Stealthy"!

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Old 03-14-2009, 04:36 PM   #36
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Josh, some questions on the car, things I don't like. Are the inner camber links screwed in from the bottom from under the graphite carbon plate? This would make camber link changes and adding/removing shims a pita. But that's just a nit pik.


And is this how the shock towers are mounted? Wouldn't this cause the chassis to tweak easy? The shock towers can move around easy? This could affect droop, shock rebound/compression changes. Not unless if the aluminum sway mounts are locked in with the shock towers.


Just curious. Car looks pretty sweet. Maybe something I may consider later on.
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:03 PM   #37
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Nice to see the design finally.... Does look sweet...

I used to glue the screws into the graphite plates on the 415 to get around the problem of changing the upper link spacing. Considering that this plate is 2 screws I wouldn't bother. It looks easy enuf to get too quick.

From what I see the tower is mounted the same as every other touring car on the market!? They have used the same screws to also hold the swaybar mount and tower. I can't see it being a prob unless you change swaybars often.

How cool is it you can remove your diffs without moving the shock towers!
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:17 PM   #38
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nice kit .. is it still in R&D?
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:42 PM   #39
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niznai - The weight tray on the side is to balance the weight left to right. The tray is molded and angled to sit below the top of the chassis and angled so it doesn't touch the track when the car rolls or leans in a corner. The weight sits below the top of the chassis and can be changed easily depending on the pack. The other bonus to this is that you don't have to run as much weight to balance the car which allows the car to be right down on the legal limit. Additionally, unless you are gluing your weights to each lipo pack, the weight trays that sit in the battery slots that others use actually raise the CG of the car since they raise the pack up as well. Taping the weight to the side of the pack again raises the CG so really this is just a nice, clean way of doing everything that's needed along with acting like a guard/locator for the Lipo and lowers the CG.... Seems like a simple advance to me....
I prefer to squeeze balancing weights underneath the battery in the gaps between it and the chassis, and also between the dimples on the bottom of batteries, so my batteries sit exactly where they were supposed to, they're not raised even one millimetre from the chassis. But even if you use one of those trays that raise the battery, the COG is not raised but lowered, because the density of the weights is greater than that of the LIPO battery. Keeping the heavier things down lowers the COG.

The problem I see with the weights on the side is a higher momentum of inertia when going around left corners. And going around corners in general. That's because the distribution of weight is very important in rotational motion where due to the momentum of inertia forces weights are multiplied according to how far from the rotational center they are. A weight closer to the center will have a smaller force acting on it than the same weight further from the center. I hope this makes sense.

Practically, I have seen cars tend to swing out and/or understeer when the NiMh battery is replaced and 200grams of lead are added on the outside of the Lipo battery, and that's exactly what I would expect to see.

I went to great lengths to squeeze everything down the centre of my cars or as close as possible and as low as possible and have managed to achieve great left-to right balance at minimum weight allowed without having one gram of weight on the batteries or hanging out the side like that. Of course, I had to make my own weights for this.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:44 AM   #40
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I hope it is good, and is successful, TOP was getting quite a roll in Australia, but with the delays and secret squirrel stuff being employed, most have switched to other brands.
Brad, Having seen the full set of CAD pics I know many drivers will return once they are released,

the design is very impressive.
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:40 AM   #41
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Brad, Having seen the full set of CAD pics I know many drivers will return once they are released,

the design is very impressive.

Hi rodders

The pics look pretty good, i love the std lipo weight tray and looks like you can even changeweight balance front to rear, the diff acccess is noice, but i am getting 415 flashbacks for roll centre changes. Large diff and centre pulleys are great.

The long bulkheads look a little concerning, ala MI3, getting flashbacks to it, a total pig on low grip asphalt.

Im only loking at them on a small screen tonight, look forward to a big screen tomm.

Josh - you really think your market are readers of Xtreme magazine, with a 2 month delay to publication?
Now we have had a teaser with phone cam pics of someones screen, lets have the full versions. Looks great overall, hope it works well on shitty rock covered asphalt as well as it has been working for Cyrul on postage stamp carpet tracks.
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:45 AM   #42
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Seeing that pic has already been posted here is better one of it.
For the rest ,you guys just have to wait.
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:57 AM   #43
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The long bulkheads look a little concerning, ala MI3, getting flashbacks to it, a total pig on low grip asphalt.
Brad from what I can see from the CAD pics the Front and rear bulkheads are the same (like with the scythe) the alloy that connect to the topdeck are separate (the carbon wings join them together)
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:21 PM   #44
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Hello Everyone,

First off thank you for your patience. I apologize for the delay, but like Josh mentioned this car was designed, tested, and produced in a relatively short period of time. However, the unique design features have been Joshís ideas for a long time.

We have completed the marketing material and will be posted within 24 hours, probably sooner. Iíve already sent it to RedRC and Iíll be posting it here soon after. The material will show off some of the unique features of the car which we hope will make the Photon stand out from our competition. We are really happy with the final product.

Thanks again,

EJ Evans
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:10 PM   #45
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Yes, there will be a 5-cell chassis. So with using the standard chassis you will have options for forward/middle/back battery position with the 5-cell or 6-cell chassis.

A lot of work went into the plastics on the car. Honestly, this was a big worry of ours being our first project but so far everything has been great and I am extremely happy with the plastics that will come in the kit.

The ball cups are open on the top to allow for a 3mm wrench to access the ball studs. They are directional though so they can not pop down over the ball stud and bind the suspension (a problem especially with the front shocks on a foam tire car).

"Stealthy" is on the old TOP Racing decal sheets. I don't even know what it's from...lol...

Yes, the camber links do have a screw through the graphite like the 415 was but the reason was to give everyone a wide range of adjustment so we could really learn and do more than any other car out there. From the set-ups I have run with the car, you can use a M3 nut (locking or non) to hold the screw in place for easier RC adjustments. Keep in mind, a lot of this car is super low compared to other cars out there.

When you think about the towers - Normally you have a tower screwed to two seperate aluminum parts that are then fastened to the bulkheads. With this, we have the towers straight on the bulkheads (4 less screws and 2 less parts) so there is less chance of tweaking and tower movement. Also, with the sway bar mounts, it really makes the towers very strong and solid. I've worked on the car now for a few months and have never had a tower tweak the car.

As far as the Lipo weights, everyone has a preference. When you look at the club racers, if they have a few different packs it's expensive to buy or hard to make parts to stick to each pack to balance the car like you speak of. Also, you have to keep in mind that the Photon's motor vs. battery is only 17.75mm a part where most other cars out are 20-23mm. This means we can easily afford to use the lipo tray to balance the car and still have good balance. To show that this has worked correctly, the car has had slightly more markings from dragging the track on the outside (high speed corners at the end of the straight) but over all the markings (easy to see with foam) are very balanced and equal. The car does not drive tweaked and the traction left/right is very balanced. Also, with this we can use minimal weight to balance the car and then the remaining weight is placed down the center.

Beserco - Again - I am not in charge of press release or releases to the public. My job is as a driver and engineer so please don't assume that I have control over this area. When management at TOP is ready to release official information then they will do so but that is not my department. As far as the bulkheads, they are actually a lot shorter than you think. Again, with the style and shape of the car it really gives to a lot of misconceptions. When you can set it on a bench next to another car you get a whole new perspective on the car. If I remember right, the Mi3 also has 6mm bulkheads that were super stiff, long and heavy with a high CG and a really short center top deck. We made the top deck as long as possible and allowed for additional flex tuning at each end of the car which definatly changes the car with the adding or removing the standoffs, the weight is super low and the car is underweight in all forms of racing - as much as 100grams depending on rules and tires (foam/rubber) so again, drawing conclusions from a simple image does the car no justice as it really is a completely different car than anything out there. Yes, there are similarities but there is so much in the details that it's not just another copy of whatever....
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