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Old 08-10-2009, 06:27 AM   #1816
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Default A couple of build issues...

Hi all,

I spent most of last week's evenings finishing the carbon edges of my new Photon chassis. Saturday was my first opportunity to start the build proper, although I had a couple of problems with it...

First thing I have to mention is that a one piece thrust bearing in the diff would save a whole lot of effort trying to get the diff together. Once done, though, the diff is lovely and smooth (and sooo much easier to adjust than the TRF 415 diffs that you have to remove to tighten). The integrated dust covers are a work of genius

The second annoyance I have is that the centre pulley and spur gear is a P.I.T.A. to assemble. Although I reamed the holes in the spur gear I couldn't get the pulleys to seat properly and as a result the spur gear wobbles when spun. I suspect I haven't reamed enough out of the spur and one 'peg' isn't seated properly, so will have another go later. I wonder if alloy parts for the centre pulleys will be a good option part ?

The last thing of note, was that the front belt seems to rub very slightly on the bottom plate cut-out when running the front spool cams on a loose setting (ie, for a tight, new belt). Although not a massive issue, this could be avoided by making the cut-out on the lower deck 2 or 3mm longer towards the back of the chassis with a file.

It is possible that these problems are user error / inexperience, but I thought I would post them in case anyone else has had issues.


Still a cracking piece of kit... can't wait to run it on Friday

Daniel.
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:46 AM   #1817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia View Post
Hi all,

I spent most of last week's evenings finishing the carbon edges of my new Photon chassis. Saturday was my first opportunity to start the build proper, although I had a couple of problems with it...

First thing I have to mention is that a one piece thrust bearing in the diff would save a whole lot of effort trying to get the diff together. Once done, though, the diff is lovely and smooth (and sooo much easier to adjust than the TRF 415 diffs that you have to remove to tighten). The integrated dust covers are a work of genius

The second annoyance I have is that the centre pulley and spur gear is a P.I.T.A. to assemble. Although I reamed the holes in the spur gear I couldn't get the pulleys to seat properly and as a result the spur gear wobbles when spun. I suspect I haven't reamed enough out of the spur and one 'peg' isn't seated properly, so will have another go later. I wonder if alloy parts for the centre pulleys will be a good option part ?

The last thing of note, was that the front belt seems to rub very slightly on the bottom plate cut-out when running the front spool cams on a loose setting (ie, for a tight, new belt). Although not a massive issue, this could be avoided by making the cut-out on the lower deck 2 or 3mm longer towards the back of the chassis with a file.

It is possible that these problems are user error / inexperience, but I thought I would post them in case anyone else has had issues.


Still a cracking piece of kit... can't wait to run it on Friday

Daniel.
Hey umm.. since when do you have to remove the diff in a 415 to adjust it?
All you need to do is remove the left rear wheel and then pop the upper control link and then stick an allen wrench in there and adjust... no need to remove it.
The thrust ball race in the diff is like that to cut production costs I'm sure.
As for the center pulleys, lets keep the rotating mass down to a minimum.
I'm sure the alignment of the spur gear is just a quirk and once everyone has put a few spur gears on they will fit like a glove. I cant wait for my kit to get here.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:03 AM   #1818
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My first spur and pulley combo was rubbish.......got a new one spent a while reaming out the holes to the right size etc.....fits perfect.

Except that i have to use 3 spacers on the layshaft
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:55 AM   #1819
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Originally Posted by Slick990 View Post
My first spur and pulley combo was rubbish.......got a new one spent a while reaming out the holes to the right size etc.....fits perfect.

Except that i have to use 3 spacers on the layshaft

Hmmm... I suspect I will come to the same conclusion later this evening.

Good call on the TRF diff... why didn't I think of that *numpty*
Oh well, doesn't matter now I have a new car.


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Old 08-10-2009, 10:05 AM   #1820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia View Post
Hi all,

I spent most of last week's evenings finishing the carbon edges of my new Photon chassis. Saturday was my first opportunity to start the build proper, although I had a couple of problems with it...

First thing I have to mention is that a one piece thrust bearing in the diff would save a whole lot of effort trying to get the diff together. Once done, though, the diff is lovely and smooth (and sooo much easier to adjust than the TRF 415 diffs that you have to remove to tighten). The integrated dust covers are a work of genius

The second annoyance I have is that the centre pulley and spur gear is a P.I.T.A. to assemble. Although I reamed the holes in the spur gear I couldn't get the pulleys to seat properly and as a result the spur gear wobbles when spun. I suspect I haven't reamed enough out of the spur and one 'peg' isn't seated properly, so will have another go later. I wonder if alloy parts for the centre pulleys will be a good option part ?

The last thing of note, was that the front belt seems to rub very slightly on the bottom plate cut-out when running the front spool cams on a loose setting (ie, for a tight, new belt). Although not a massive issue, this could be avoided by making the cut-out on the lower deck 2 or 3mm longer towards the back of the chassis with a file.

It is possible that these problems are user error / inexperience, but I thought I would post them in case anyone else has had issues.


Still a cracking piece of kit... can't wait to run it on Friday

Daniel.

The spur gear pulley is fine as long as you ream the holes enough. My concern is that since you have installed it with it not seated properly and you may have crushed the inserts that go into the holes on the spur. This will make mounting the spur gear more difficult. I use PRS spur gears and I did not have to ream the holes at all.

As far as the diff rubbing the cut out in the chassis, make sure you have the shims installed correctly...one on each side. If you try to shim your diff using two shims on either side this may cause rubbing.
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Old 08-10-2009, 05:12 PM   #1821
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hello.
i have a problem with the handeling of my photon.
it feels real slugish if i type it right
its real slow from left to right.
i dith run a photon off a other driver en it is good.
mine with the same setup is slooow
i dith try difrent setups none of them works.
hope somebody have some tips
ps i have rebuild it 2 times. al looks good .
so now problems with binding.
and i build my shocks always with no rebound for aspalt.

greeting marcel
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Old 08-10-2009, 07:53 PM   #1822
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EJ check your email..
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:15 PM   #1823
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Syndrome, where's your impartial weekend report? And good guys, where are the setups?
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:44 PM   #1824
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Syndrome, where's your impartial weekend report? And good guys, where are the setups?
Wheres my new kit?
Some one suggested to ignore me when I told them that before but ...
Wheres my new kit?

Im Gumby Damnit!
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Old 08-10-2009, 11:21 PM   #1825
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Originally Posted by adamge View Post
Syndrome, where's your impartial weekend report? And good guys, where are the setups?
Well... after about 28 hours at the track over the course of 2 days, I doubt there's anybody on the planet with more laps on the Photon than smoke81. At least not on the rug.

The car was fast early on, but inconsistent. Dustin and Chris tuned and tuned, fought with the traction, and by the end of the last day, arrived at a setup that was only about .2 off the fastest laps of the weekend, and seemed to be very consistent. I think they left feeling very confident about what they're taking to Vegas.

We were both struggling with our respective cars wanting to over rotate when the traction came way up, mostly right at the apex. The cars would spin out, and were very hard to drive with confidence. I finally got mine settled by adding anti-dive to the front, which made the car resist transferring weight forward, but took away a little on power steering. The same change seemed to be the magic bullet for the Photon guys as well, and once that was in place, they really started making progress fine tuning their setup. I was also having good luck using more rear camber to help keep the car from coming around, but that change didn't seem to work as well on the Photons, and made them way too stuck.

Are we taking away points for broken spools though? I'd definitely plan to roll with plenty of spares if you're on the rug, at least until the new ones come out. Even the new cups seemed to be rounding out pretty easily. Seems like there was a few broken CVD blades as well. Since there are team drivers using the same blades and spools since Reagan was in office, I can only assume certain issues are track/surface specific. I won't deny feeling a little vindicated when I saw other people experience the same things I encountered.

You guys have an awesome car, and I expect big things from all of you in Vegas. It's good to see the average layman putting in the hard hours to help shake it down and make it better for everybody else. Dustin & Chris busted their asses all weekend like men possessed. I hope you guys buy them a beer in Vegas if you use their setup, 'cause man, they earned it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:13 AM   #1826
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
The spur gear pulley is fine as long as you ream the holes enough. My concern is that since you have installed it with it not seated properly and you may have crushed the inserts that go into the holes on the spur. This will make mounting the spur gear more difficult. I use PRS spur gears and I did not have to ream the holes at all.
This is indeed what had happened... I hadn't reamed enough out of the stock spur and one of the pegs on the pulleys was a little deformed. All sorted now... so it was user error after all.

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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
As far as the diff rubbing the cut out in the chassis, make sure you have the shims installed correctly...one on each side. If you try to shim your diff using two shims on either side this may cause rubbing.
The belt isn't rubbing on the sides of the hole... if the cam (bearing holders) are adjusted so that the belt is at it's loosest then the whole spool sits fractionally lower in the chassis. On my car it looks like the belt is just touching the lower deck. A couple of notches tighter and it isn't a problem.

Under power this won't be a problem anyway as the belt will be pulled tight from underneath the spool.

Looking forward to getting an ally spool with these cup problems... I only run on carpet so might be getting through quite a few of the composite ones
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:05 AM   #1827
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
You guys have an awesome car, and I expect big things from all of you in Vegas. It's good to see the average layman putting in the hard hours to help shake it down and make it better for everybody else. Dustin & Chris busted their asses all weekend like men possessed. I hope you guys buy them a beer in Vegas if you use their setup, 'cause man, they earned it.
Well i've emailed the setup to EJ and CraigM (so hope it get son TC Hub).

Thank you for your kind words Adam. Really means a lot. Also would like to add the fact that you are the man! Thanks for trying the anti-drive That was really the magic bullet.

I will say this I wasn't using the Wood Screw mod in the spool. We had our own mod which I don't think worked well in 13.5 (had zero problems at home, but we run 17.5 locally). I was having more problems with the screws backing out then the outdrives spun in the spool. Went to the hardware last night, and i'm going to do some testing with the wood screws tonight (could only find #6 wood screws though, doing some research they arn't much bigger so should work). And yes I did have one blade come off the right rear (my car is 190mm at the rear, and seems to have plenty of clearance between the diff nut/screw and blade). Think i'll try to add another spacer on the diff screw (Thanks for that idea Art), and see if that helps it out. This is pretty much the first problems i've had since I made the car wider.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:49 AM   #1828
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Well i've emailed the setup to EJ and CraigM (so hope it get son TC Hub).

Thank you for your kind words Adam. Really means a lot. Also would like to add the fact that you are the man! Thanks for trying the anti-drive That was really the magic bullet.

I will say this I wasn't using the Wood Screw mod in the spool. We had our own mod which I don't think worked well in 13.5 (had zero problems at home, but we run 17.5 locally). I was having more problems with the screws backing out then the outdrives spun in the spool. Went to the hardware last night, and i'm going to do some testing with the wood screws tonight (could only find #6 wood screws though, doing some research they arn't much bigger so should work). And yes I did have one blade come off the right rear (my car is 190mm at the rear, and seems to have plenty of clearance between the diff nut/screw and blade). Think i'll try to add another spacer on the diff screw (Thanks for that idea Art), and see if that helps it out. This is pretty much the first problems i've had since I made the car wider.
It was a long weekend for sure (my chair was starting to grow roots)...and these guys certainly put down a lot of laps. I think whatever setup they came away with will be good starting point for Vegas after watching the cars all weekend.
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Old 08-11-2009, 10:51 AM   #1829
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dustin, could you mail me your set up so I cab get started testing for vegas, just had my 2nd kit come (for 13.5) so will be building that up ready to test with.
My mail addy is luke_hobson123@hotmail.com

Cheers,

I'm not sure what i'm doing for spools for my 13.5 car, I'm thinking Titanium Racing again as it's worked faultlessly since I put it in. I'll check the weights of it compared to composite as I'm building it.
This is my first kit after the car was released so I think I'll do a comprehensive build guide on my blog for anybody looking at getting a TOP.

Not looking forward to tomorow.... Man I hate carbon prep!
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:44 PM   #1830
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