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Old 07-20-2009, 10:16 AM   #1516
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Craig, I know I'm not the guy you were asking for help from, but looking at your setup sheet raises one question, and I may have a point of help for you...

The question I have is : Your setup sheet indicates that the front of your front arm is mounted lower than the rear. I've never seen a car setup in that fashion, and it seems like it could cause you problems. Wouldn't that reduce caster, and in turn cause steering problems?

The point I have is : Your steering ackerman is set long/#11 which based on the chart Josh posted would be
24mm Length - 11mm Insert 4.78 9.13 13.04 16.5 19.48
This is on the high side of the ackerman adjustments for the car. Quoting Josh : "Higher initial ackerman makes the car easier to drive, and more balanced through the run. Sometimes though, if you use too much ackerman you will just have slow lap times and a lazy/understeering car."
perhaps shortening the bellcrank and/or switching to a lower numbered insert would help you find more steering.
Yup/// and decrease the front droop...
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:49 PM   #1517
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Anyone looking for a kit I seen two in stock at Speedworld on Saturday give him a call on Tuesday and I sure he will ship them.

http://www.speedworldraceway.com/
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:48 PM   #1518
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Default Servo mount

I'm trying to mount my servo, it's a Futaba S9550, I'm using the forward servo mount position. I put a 2mm shim. The servo tie rod looks stiarght. My problem is the bell crank is hitting the top servo tab and the ball cup is hitting the edge of the servo. Should I cut off the servo tab and drimel the servo case a little?

Now the next problem is I mounted the sway bars a, 1.4mm in the rear and a 1.6mm in the front when I put the collers on and I push up on the rear or front arms a little bit the collers are rubbing the dog bone. Should I put the coller on the end of the sway bar and unscrew the sway bar adjuster higher?
Would appraciate any help.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:23 PM   #1519
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Originally Posted by wayne breault View Post
I'm trying to mount my servo, it's a Futaba S9550, I'm using the forward servo mount position. I put a 2mm shim. The servo tie rod looks stiarght. My problem is the bell crank is hitting the top servo tab and the ball cup is hitting the edge of the servo. Should I cut off the servo tab and drimel the servo case a little?
Some of the guys at my track have been shimming out 6mm and you won't have to dremel....or you can mount in the rear position. I was looking for a servo mount from someone that I can use so I won't have to shim so much. But with my small electronics I may just go back to mounting in the rear position.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:26 PM   #1520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne breault View Post
I'm trying to mount my servo, it's a Futaba S9550, I'm using the forward servo mount position. I put a 2mm shim. The servo tie rod looks stiarght. My problem is the bell crank is hitting the top servo tab and the ball cup is hitting the edge of the servo. Should I cut off the servo tab and drimel the servo case a little?

Now the next problem is I mounted the sway bars a, 1.4mm in the rear and a 1.6mm in the front when I put the collers on and I push up on the rear or front arms a little bit the collers are rubbing the dog bone. Should I put the coller on the end of the sway bar and unscrew the sway bar adjuster higher?
Would appraciate any help.
Wayne
Ack Wayno I thought you were going to get the 009. Heard good things about this car. I can't wait to see it this Sunday. Go hellhounds? Now that you actually own one, I wonder if Lee is getting one too .

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Old 07-20-2009, 03:27 PM   #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne breault View Post
I'm trying to mount my servo, it's a Futaba S9550, I'm using the forward servo mount position. I put a 2mm shim. The servo tie rod looks stiarght. My problem is the bell crank is hitting the top servo tab and the ball cup is hitting the edge of the servo. Should I cut off the servo tab and drimel the servo case a little?

Now the next problem is I mounted the sway bars a, 1.4mm in the rear and a 1.6mm in the front when I put the collers on and I push up on the rear or front arms a little bit the collers are rubbing the dog bone. Should I put the coller on the end of the sway bar and unscrew the sway bar adjuster higher?
Would appraciate any help.
Wayne
The best recommendation I've heard on the servo is to use a live beaver to trim off the tab and part of the case of the servo to prevent that....

RE: your sway bar, it sounds like you have the short ball cup (10.5) attatched to the suspension arm instead of the long ball cup (14.5) or you are missing the 2.5mm spacer under the ball that joins the two. A pic would definately help.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:30 PM   #1522
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
I gave all of these a go today, but the best result was from going up in sway bars to 1.4 front and rear. The car was quite good at the club meet today (I won the main) but I'm still after more steering, particularly exit steering on power, but I also find I cant get on power as early as some mid corner in tight turns. I've attached my setup if it's any help
I was incorrect yesterday with my setup advice. With the reduced caster in the front you will enter a corner better ,but you will lose some mid-corner and exit steering. Less up travel , not more is also correct. Sorry for the mistake.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:41 PM   #1523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirtybird View Post
The question I have is : Your setup sheet indicates that the front of your front arm is mounted lower than the rear. I've never seen a car setup in that fashion, and it seems like it could cause you problems. Wouldn't that reduce caster, and in turn cause steering problems?

The point I have is : Your steering ackerman is set long/#11 which based on the chart Josh posted would be
24mm Length - 11mm Insert 4.78 9.13 13.04 16.5 19.48
This is on the high side of the ackerman adjustments for the car. Quoting Josh : "Higher initial ackerman makes the car easier to drive, and more balanced through the run. Sometimes though, if you use too much ackerman you will just have slow lap times and a lazy/understeering car."
perhaps shortening the bellcrank and/or switching to a lower numbered insert would help you find more steering.
0.5mm of antidive was pretty standard on my last car, and when I first put it on this car I liked it a lot. The reduction in castor is fairly slight, so you can normally get the steering back pretty easily

As for the ackerman, maybe I'm wrong but I thought the forward position with insert 11 would be lower initial ackerman than any of the middle values, so I'll have more steering not less. That's how the chart looks and how it feels on the track anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamD View Post
I was incorrect yesterday with my setup advice. With the reduced caster in the front you will enter a corner better ,but you will lose some mid-corner and exit steering. Less up travel , not more is also correct. Sorry for the mistake.
yep I figured that was what you meant. Its funny, on the tamiya 6mm of droop on the droop blocks was basically zero up travel, on the TOP it's 2-3mm. I guess the thicker deck has something to do with it.

All this experimenting is great fun, I don't know about anyone else but I've found this car so responsive to setup changes, and it just seems fast regardless of what you do
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:46 PM   #1524
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[QUOTE=CraigM;6092514]0.5mm of antidive was pretty standard on my last car, and when I first put it on this car I liked it a lot. The reduction in castor is fairly slight, so you can normally get the steering back pretty easily

actually in his setup he is running kickup which adds caster
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:43 PM   #1525
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yep I figured that was what you meant. Its funny, on the tamiya 6mm of droop on the droop blocks was basically zero up travel, on the TOP it's 2-3mm. I guess the thicker deck has something to do with it.


I think the # is just a vernier , depending on where you measure it and the shape of the part. Either way , The front end should droop a little bit from ride height,
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:35 PM   #1526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goop View Post
actually in his setup he is running kickup which adds caster
nope it's antidive. FF is mid-down FR is mid up, so the hinge pins are lower at the front
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:46 PM   #1527
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[QUOTE=CraigM;6093468]nope it's antidive. FF is mid-down FR is mid up, so the hinge pins are lower at the front [/QUOTE

my bad i was reading it wrong it took me 3 times looking at it to figure it out. its been a long day
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:06 PM   #1528
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look again its ff mid up and fr is mid down its on page 100
Maybe we are reading the sheet differently. To me it would logically go from highest RC setting to lowest, left to right:

high up, high down, mid up (FR), mid down (FF), low up, low down

These would be hinge pin positions, not the position of the mark on the eccentric inserts, so maybe that's the confusion. Anyway, I'm definitely running antidive
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:42 PM   #1529
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Originally Posted by CraigM View Post
As for the ackerman, maybe I'm wrong but I thought the forward position with insert 11 would be lower initial ackerman than any of the middle values, so I'll have more steering not less. That's how the chart looks and how it feels on the track anyway
I read the part about "lower initial ackerman (closer # values) " and I thought the lowest initial ackerman setting was rear position (21) with a 9mm insert. That would put forward(24) with an 11mm as the third highest. One of us is misinterpretting what was said and I would love to get clarification

as for the anti-dive - I've always had cars with flat front suspension or kick-up...
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:00 PM   #1530
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Originally Posted by Thirtybird View Post
I thought the lowest initial ackerman setting was rear position (21) with a 9mm insert.
I believe in order from most ackerman to least it goes

rear 12
rear 11
rear 10
rear 9
middle 12
middle 11
middle 10
middle 9
front 12
front 11
front 10
front 9

that's what I got from Josh's comment:

Quote:
Those ackerman #'s are the difference in relation from inside/outside wheel travel from 0 degrees. Example - Going back to the chart 21mm crank (shortest setting) with a 12mm insert gives you an inside wheel angle of 25 degrees with the outside turning 17.65 = 7.35 degrees of ackerman at 25 degrees of inside wheel travel.
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