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Old 01-19-2009, 01:59 PM   #1
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Default "Time" to ban mechanical timing on spec brushless motors?

Is it just me or is the timing of spec brushless motors threatening to make setup just as complicated (if not more so) than it was with brushed?

As I'm sure you remember if you cast your minds back, brushed stock and spec had been fixed at 24 degrees mechanical timing for many years.

Brushless motors have adjustable mechanical timing, and on top of that the ESC's are starting to do some crazy/inspired things with the timing too - so much so that some ESC's won't work correctly with motors that have the wrong mechanical timing setting.

Is this not excessively complex?

You can't do anything about ESC software but is there an argument for banning mechanical timing adjustments on spec motors, and leaving that aspect of tuning to mod? After all, if you need more power in mod, you can just drop a wind - racers don't want to have to mess with mechanical timing, ESC profiles AND gear ratio to be as quick as the rest in spec.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:09 PM   #2
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I agree with what you're saying. Right now is a hectic time because BL is still developing at an astonishing pace. We're stuck with Geek Squad types that like to have 100 different parameters to fiddle with. Obviously the people that are tenacious at it find advantages. I personally like fiddling with the mechanic side of things, and get overwhelmed with all the electronic stuff.

It's sort of what the sport has evolved in to. I think we have to just go with the flow and only make things as complicated as we feel fit for ourselves. Simple works for me and I feel pretty good with how fast I am currently. I won't let a speedo keep me down.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:10 PM   #3
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What about just spec-ing a motor that doesn't have adjustable timing...my Speed Passion 13.5 is fixed timing, I'm sure there are others.

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Old 01-19-2009, 02:19 PM   #4
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It really isn't an issue. Most of the faster guys at National level don't touch their timing mechanically unless they are between teeth on gearing. And when they do its only a notch. Most do it in their ESC. Mechanical has too many drawbacks; heat, inefficiency, etc.. No need for a rule, it will sort itself out anyways or have an opposite affect on those who don't know- so that's about it.
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:17 PM   #5
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I am a guy who bought the Tekin RS speedo so I could play with all of the settings. Right now I am running their beta software that adds even more features. I enjoy the tinkering...I guess I would say I now understand the guys who liked to tweak their brushed motors.

Unless you ban timing on ESC's, banning it on motors won't make a difference. Yes the tunning with timing can add complexity but no more than brushes, brush serrations, springs, bushings tricks, magnet zapping, etc, etc. If you know what your doing you maybe can get that tad bit more out of your motor...just like in the brushed days. But when I ran brushed I basically just maintained my motor...cut the comm, changed the springs and brushes when needed and just drove. You can still so the same with brushless...just gear right and run. There were motor tuners back then and now there will be motor/ESC tuners now....oh and I see laptops have replaced comm lathes in the pits.
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:18 PM   #6
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I would not ban the timing adjustment on motors. If you do that then the ESC becomes more important and makes the cost of racing that much more for local racing.

With the adjustment available, at least some of the cheaper $100 ESC's can have the same top speed, just not the total overal rip.
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Old 01-19-2009, 05:10 PM   #7
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What's the point? With the current ESC's, the timing adjustments are almost limitless, regardless of what the motors base timing is, or isn't.

Forcing a new motor 'spec' only increases cost to everyone, again!!!

I think the reasoning for foregoing mechanical timing limits on brushless motors was the fact that the ESC manufacturers have that ability to adjust timing on the fly, anytime, right within the ESC.

Tell me, what's is the difference between have a motor locked at 20-deg and having the ESC add anywhere from 0-40 deg timing, or having the ESC adding 35-deg to a motor with 0 to +20 deg timing?
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Old 01-19-2009, 06:36 PM   #8
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Just thought I would mention that speedies with adjustable timing only use the motors mechanical timing for less than i seconds per race. Outside of those 2 seconds the mechanical timing makes no difference. I belive all speedies will end up like this sooner or l8r.
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:40 PM   #9
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Motor is never a substitute for setup and driving skills....
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:52 AM   #10
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A good topic

But in all honesty, with the wide range of equipment out there these days, all trying to sell as much as possible, a spec race with a budget brushless esc and fixed timing motor is going to be hard for a lot of people to manage in the current economy.

I do see what you're saying though, there is mega timing available out there, I still race brushed but in all, i'm still enjoying the challenge of keeping up with 13.5, soon I will make the switch.
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