Spec tires for 1/12th?
12-11-2008, 07:15 PM
#46
1/12th is one of the oldest classes in RC, and still running strong. That has to tell you something right there. Don't fix what is not broken, 1/12th is the only class that you can pretty much count on always being there. 
12-11-2008, 07:15 PM
#47
By the way, I am also a strong opponent to this because of the new 1/12 BODY rules that are coming. There is soon to be a 1/12 GBS spec for the bodies to try and make them look more realistic. With this, I think we are going to loose a lot of downforce and raise the CG of the bodies quite a bit (can you say traction roll!!!)..... Just to give you one dimension - Rear wing/side dam height max is 72mm... My 1/12 body from the Champs was around 76-77mm if I remember correctly..... Again, people need to look at the big picture (and know the details) before they can try to push for something that will potentially damage an otherwise pretty healthy class (especially in comparison to TC)......
Later all!! Time to pack for Fastcats!!
Later all!! Time to pack for Fastcats!!
12-11-2008, 07:20 PM
#48
It seems to be there are a lot of rule changes going on for the sake of changing rules... 1/12 scale is one of the biggest classes at any major race.... Why in the world would you change a single thing.
This post is more aimed at what josh said about the body rules than the spec tire thing.
This post is more aimed at what josh said about the body rules than the spec tire thing.
12-11-2008, 07:27 PM
#49
Tech Master
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Lets see.... Wider cockpits & higher, higher side pods, lower rear wing, less side dam........ The more Paul C. from Parma and I talked about it, the less we are looking forward to it now that the cars are so fast. This was talked about a few years ago (long before BL) and it was thought to be a good idea from a lot of mfg's - myself included - to get a more realistic look/feel back to 1/12. Now with the speeds.... I am really hesitant... We need to make a body to the new rules and see just how bad/ok it might be....
> > PARTICULAR TO 1/12th SPORTS CARS
> > THE RULE SHOULD BE AMENDED TO READ
> > 6.1 BODIES:
> > 6.1.1 The body must be a 1/12th replica of an actual racing
> > car in all areas
> > Body shells must be submitted to the EFRA Body shell Homologation Officer
> > for approval. A list of homologated bodies must be sent with the drivers
> > package and to the organisers and be available on the EFRA website.
> > The following is the specification for approval of 1/12 Prototype Sports
> > car body shells. They should be used by the Homologation officer to enable
> > clear and consistent application of standards for future approvals,
> > Lower body cut line is to be used as the reference plane for all height
> > dimensions.
> > Minimum cockpit height – Closed cockpit – 55mm (Excluding any air scoops /
> > air boxes)
> > Minimum cockpit width – Closed cockpit – 70mm (Measured at the point it
> > intersects with the side pod)
> > Minimum cockpit width - 55mm (measured at the lower window line)
> > Minimum Roll bar height – Open cockpit – 55mm
> > Maximum distance from Drivers helmet to top of roll bar – Open cockpit
> > -11mm
> > Minimum cockpit width – Open cockpit – 65mm (Measured at the point it
> > intersects with the side pod)
> > Minimum front wheel arch height – 46mm (Including vents) (measured at a
> > point 15mm from edge of body)
> > Minimum rear wheel arch height – 50mm (measured at a point 10mm from edge
> > of body)
> > Maximum overall width – 174mm
> > Minimum overall width – 168mm
> > Max. wing / spoiler height – 65mm
> > Max. front overhang (From centre of front wheel)– 70mm
> > Max. rear overhang (from centre of rear wheel) – 70mm
> > Max. length overall – 340mm
> > Minimum side pod height – 30mm
> > The side dam must blend fully (disappear) into the main body shape within
> > 110mm of the rear edge of the body/side dam.
> > Max side dam height – 72mm
> > The body side forward of the side dam must have a radiused edge, no lips
> > or upward extensions are acceptable
> > Bodies must be a reasonable representation of a full size LMES / ALMS /
> > LMP / WSC prototype.
> > Open cockpit cars to have twin roll bars as current LMES / ALMS
> > Open cockpit cars must have a representative driver’s helmet and cockpit
> > opening
> > The name of the prototype must be used for the homologation process.
> > The name of the prototype does not have to be used for general sales and
> > marketing.
> > Only fins or strakes that are present on the full size prototype will be
> > allowed.
> > The body must not be cut above the lower cut line
> > Cut-outs in the shell will be allowed only if clearly defined on the full
> > size prototype
> > Once Homologated there must be no changes to the design, trim lines,
> > detail lines or any feature of the body. All changes will require
> > resubmission for approval and an additional revision letter added to the
> > part number- Example 15001A - Original - 15001B for a 2ndRev. Etc
> > The manufacturer’s par number must be clearly marked on the shell
> > alongside the windscreen area
> > Bodies complying to the existing homologation list will be allowed until
> > October 1st 2009, after this date only bodies meeting the above criteria
> > will be allowed
> > 6.1.2 Wheel cut-outs may not be more than 15 mm larger than
> > tyre radius (Exception - scale size and/or shape wheel cut-outs). Wheel
> > wells must be cut out if those on the original car were cut out.
> > 6.1.3 Only one wing is allowed on the car unless the actual
> > car had a second wing. The second wing must be scale within 10% in size
> > and location. The wing may be not closer than 6.5 mm to any part of the
> > body other than the tail fins or side dams.
> > 6.2 MEASUREMENTS AND WEIGHTS
> > Maximum overall width of the car: 172 mm (Excluding shell)
> > Minimum weight: 800 gram for 4 cell and 890gram for 6 cells.
> > Wing: Maximum width: 172 mm, the wing profile has to fit in a rectangle of
> > 52mm (height) x 26mm
> > Spoilers: Max. Spoiler height: 25 mm, max length 35 mm. These dimensions
> > include the moulded in portions of the body, the use of a gurney flap to
> > extend the wing length is acceptable.
> > PARTICULAR TO 1/12th SPORTS CARS
> > THE RULE SHOULD BE AMENDED TO READ
> > 6.1 BODIES:
> > 6.1.1 The body must be a 1/12th replica of an actual racing
> > car in all areas
> > Body shells must be submitted to the EFRA Body shell Homologation Officer
> > for approval. A list of homologated bodies must be sent with the drivers
> > package and to the organisers and be available on the EFRA website.
> > The following is the specification for approval of 1/12 Prototype Sports
> > car body shells. They should be used by the Homologation officer to enable
> > clear and consistent application of standards for future approvals,
> > Lower body cut line is to be used as the reference plane for all height
> > dimensions.
> > Minimum cockpit height – Closed cockpit – 55mm (Excluding any air scoops /
> > air boxes)
> > Minimum cockpit width – Closed cockpit – 70mm (Measured at the point it
> > intersects with the side pod)
> > Minimum cockpit width - 55mm (measured at the lower window line)
> > Minimum Roll bar height – Open cockpit – 55mm
> > Maximum distance from Drivers helmet to top of roll bar – Open cockpit
> > -11mm
> > Minimum cockpit width – Open cockpit – 65mm (Measured at the point it
> > intersects with the side pod)
> > Minimum front wheel arch height – 46mm (Including vents) (measured at a
> > point 15mm from edge of body)
> > Minimum rear wheel arch height – 50mm (measured at a point 10mm from edge
> > of body)
> > Maximum overall width – 174mm
> > Minimum overall width – 168mm
> > Max. wing / spoiler height – 65mm
> > Max. front overhang (From centre of front wheel)– 70mm
> > Max. rear overhang (from centre of rear wheel) – 70mm
> > Max. length overall – 340mm
> > Minimum side pod height – 30mm
> > The side dam must blend fully (disappear) into the main body shape within
> > 110mm of the rear edge of the body/side dam.
> > Max side dam height – 72mm
> > The body side forward of the side dam must have a radiused edge, no lips
> > or upward extensions are acceptable
> > Bodies must be a reasonable representation of a full size LMES / ALMS /
> > LMP / WSC prototype.
> > Open cockpit cars to have twin roll bars as current LMES / ALMS
> > Open cockpit cars must have a representative driver’s helmet and cockpit
> > opening
> > The name of the prototype must be used for the homologation process.
> > The name of the prototype does not have to be used for general sales and
> > marketing.
> > Only fins or strakes that are present on the full size prototype will be
> > allowed.
> > The body must not be cut above the lower cut line
> > Cut-outs in the shell will be allowed only if clearly defined on the full
> > size prototype
> > Once Homologated there must be no changes to the design, trim lines,
> > detail lines or any feature of the body. All changes will require
> > resubmission for approval and an additional revision letter added to the
> > part number- Example 15001A - Original - 15001B for a 2ndRev. Etc
> > The manufacturer’s par number must be clearly marked on the shell
> > alongside the windscreen area
> > Bodies complying to the existing homologation list will be allowed until
> > October 1st 2009, after this date only bodies meeting the above criteria
> > will be allowed
> > 6.1.2 Wheel cut-outs may not be more than 15 mm larger than
> > tyre radius (Exception - scale size and/or shape wheel cut-outs). Wheel
> > wells must be cut out if those on the original car were cut out.
> > 6.1.3 Only one wing is allowed on the car unless the actual
> > car had a second wing. The second wing must be scale within 10% in size
> > and location. The wing may be not closer than 6.5 mm to any part of the
> > body other than the tail fins or side dams.
> > 6.2 MEASUREMENTS AND WEIGHTS
> > Maximum overall width of the car: 172 mm (Excluding shell)
> > Minimum weight: 800 gram for 4 cell and 890gram for 6 cells.
> > Wing: Maximum width: 172 mm, the wing profile has to fit in a rectangle of
> > 52mm (height) x 26mm
> > Spoilers: Max. Spoiler height: 25 mm, max length 35 mm. These dimensions
> > include the moulded in portions of the body, the use of a gurney flap to
> > extend the wing length is acceptable.
12-11-2008, 07:30 PM
#50
For that matter, how many of us have a real "Mohawk 2" or "DNA" in the driveway?
I'll echo the sentiment... 1/12 works, let's not destroy it trying to fix some nonexistent "problem"
12-11-2008, 07:31 PM
#51
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
Wow... just realized I read it wrong... 65mm for rear wing and 72mm for the side dam.... I measured my car from the Champs just now... 79mm side dams and 73mm rear wing (from the bottom of the chassis)..... 7-8mm less side dam/wing in the rear...... Who thinks we need Lilac rears now??? 
By the way - That was the EFRA GBS ruling that is set to go into effect and was approved at their last AGM meeting...
By the way - That was the EFRA GBS ruling that is set to go into effect and was approved at their last AGM meeting...
12-11-2008, 07:37 PM
#52
If people seem to like real looking cars, then we should go that way. A 1/12th body is around $15 (that's not a budget breaker), If they make a change, there will likely be plenty of options to choose from, and one or two will filter to the top the very first weekend out.
I'm all for having my 1/12th car look like a little Corvette or something.
Although nobody's done it yet that I'm aware of, it would sure be easier to get outside the industry people to get behind us if our stuff looked like THEIR stuff. In fact, sign me up, I'll run one.
We ran Bolink Pickup bodys on our 1/12th cars back in the day. It was FUN. Notice the "F" word in that last sentence.
12-11-2008, 07:44 PM
#53
I'm not a big 1/12 scale buff, but I would assume if a car is that dependent on the body. Would it be that big of a stretch to think the cars will have to change to compensate?
12-11-2008, 07:44 PM
#54
Wow... just realized I read it wrong... 65mm for rear wing and 72mm for the side dam.... I measured my car from the Champs just now... 79mm side dams and 73mm rear wing (from the bottom of the chassis)..... 7-8mm less side dam/wing in the rear...... Who thinks we need Lilac rears now???
<---knows better than to strap in Cyrul style horsepower.
12-11-2008, 07:56 PM
#55
I'm all for having my 1/12th car look like a little Corvette or something. Although nobody's done it yet that I'm aware of, it would sure be easier to get outside the industry people to get behind us if our stuff looked like THEIR stuff.
In fact, sign me up, I'll run one. We ran Bolink Pickup bodys on our 1/12th cars back in the day. It was FUN.
Notice the "F" word in that last sentence.
Although nobody's done it yet that I'm aware of, it would sure be easier to get outside the industry people to get behind us if our stuff looked like THEIR stuff. In fact, sign me up, I'll run one.
We ran Bolink Pickup bodys on our 1/12th cars back in the day. It was FUN. Notice the "F" word in that last sentence.
We used to run beetle bodies on 1/12 for kicks... Fun, but I wouldn't want to see that become the only form of 1/12 by any means...
12-11-2008, 08:04 PM
#57
Those body rules are pretty scary actually. It will hoze the stock classes also.
There's going to have to be some pretty major changes to get all that downforce back.
There's going to have to be some pretty major changes to get all that downforce back.
12-11-2008, 08:10 PM
#58
I was just trying to point out that a rule change that really isn't needed is going effect a whole much more than whats right on the surface. I really enjoy racing 1/12 scale the way it is.. Just don't do it as often as I'd like.
12-11-2008, 08:15 PM
#60
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If you go to nearly any track, nearly everybody is running the same tires, why?
because they are the fastest.
I don't run 1/12th, but i'd expect tires to be the majority of the setup, c'mon guys, you don't wanna turn 1/12th into a vintage class.
What are the disadvantages to allowing people to choose for themselve?
why force them to buy one tire? now, if tires where free for 1/12th, then it would be worth having one brand, one compound, etc, but they aren't, is the guy with the "best tires" (the same ones that the fast guys are using) gonna have the selective advantage? NO!!
Because other's can more than likely access them as well!!
because they are the fastest.
I don't run 1/12th, but i'd expect tires to be the majority of the setup, c'mon guys, you don't wanna turn 1/12th into a vintage class.
What are the disadvantages to allowing people to choose for themselve?
why force them to buy one tire? now, if tires where free for 1/12th, then it would be worth having one brand, one compound, etc, but they aren't, is the guy with the "best tires" (the same ones that the fast guys are using) gonna have the selective advantage? NO!!
Because other's can more than likely access them as well!!