143LikesAwesomatix EP Touring Car (A700 Shaft Drive)
07-29-2014, 12:46 PM
#6856
Hi, I just bought for a fare price an used A700 from one of the first generation (produced mid 2012 I think).
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
Thanks!
Alexandre
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
Thanks!
Alexandre
07-29-2014, 07:46 PM
#6857
Hi, I just bought for a fare price an used A700 from one of the first generation (produced mid 2012 I think).
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
Thanks!
Alexandre
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
Thanks!
Alexandre
07-29-2014, 08:28 PM
#6858
Hi Alexandre,
The following observations are based on outdoors medium to low grip.
The original chassis is 3mm thick and a little too stiff in my experience. Not by much but enough. I would suggest thinner if always running med to low grip.
Outdoors I always run shorter links, feels better overall and gives some camber gain.
The plastics are fine
AM01 is fine too it just a little different in setting up the rear toe links.
Soft spring with the original dampers are also good.
Cheers
The following observations are based on outdoors medium to low grip.
The original chassis is 3mm thick and a little too stiff in my experience. Not by much but enough. I would suggest thinner if always running med to low grip.
Outdoors I always run shorter links, feels better overall and gives some camber gain.
The plastics are fine
AM01 is fine too it just a little different in setting up the rear toe links.
Soft spring with the original dampers are also good.
Cheers
07-29-2014, 09:03 PM
#6859
See responses in italics
Hi, I just bought for a fare price an used A700 from one of the first generation (produced mid 2012 I think).
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
MD > The original rear toe link position was shorter and seemed to induce more bump on compression. Once the new bulkheads came out I never went back to the original mount
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
MD > In its original form, the chassis without the flex slots didn't generate enough traction. Modified with a dremel and slots added - the chassis became quite competitive indoors and outdoors
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
MD > Plastics are have always been good. Many of my P01/P02 parts are still in use.
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
MD > Geometry is always a good improvement, many of the setups you find on PETITRC are still going to be really competitive.
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
MD > I have tried to make the #3 work outdoors but have always gone back to #6 with standard springs. It seems to generate good traction while not making the car feel over sprung or dampened. I would actually like to see even a #7 or #8 one day...
Thanks!
Alexandre
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
MD > The original rear toe link position was shorter and seemed to induce more bump on compression. Once the new bulkheads came out I never went back to the original mount
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
MD > In its original form, the chassis without the flex slots didn't generate enough traction. Modified with a dremel and slots added - the chassis became quite competitive indoors and outdoors
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
MD > Plastics are have always been good. Many of my P01/P02 parts are still in use.
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
MD > Geometry is always a good improvement, many of the setups you find on PETITRC are still going to be really competitive.
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
MD > I have tried to make the #3 work outdoors but have always gone back to #6 with standard springs. It seems to generate good traction while not making the car feel over sprung or dampened. I would actually like to see even a #7 or #8 one day...
Thanks!
Alexandre
07-29-2014, 09:22 PM
#6860
Hi, I just bought for a fare price an used A700 from one of the first generation (produced mid 2012 I think).
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
It may be more difficult to keep bump toe from occurring on the older version due to the shorter links as caster dynamically changes. If the links are short bump toe will change at a faster rate
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
Except for two differences the original lower deck is identical in shape and thickness to the EX/EXL. The original does not have a .5mm counter bore ( reducing chassis thickness to 2.5mm ) for the lower AT21 ball to sit lower. This counter bore allows a lower roll center. ( Add AT21S and it is .5mm lower so this combination is good if you want to lower your roll center 1mm ) Also, the EX/EXL chassis has cuts that increase flex. I noticed a difference, in my opinion the slight bit of added flex allowed the car to maintain better traction on all surfaces
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
There was a running change to ST16 that resulted in a significant increase in durability of the front and rear "CV" joints. If your axles were not rebuilt in the last year and a half , it would be good to change these.
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
I believe it was only the inner rear toe link position. I didn't notice any other changes
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
I haven't tested the #3 dampers nearly enough to have on opinion.
Thanks!
Alexandre
I have a few questions...
- is the rear toe link position (shorter) on the AM19 really affect the handling or no or if adjusted accordingly is about the same?
It may be more difficult to keep bump toe from occurring on the older version due to the shorter links as caster dynamically changes. If the links are short bump toe will change at a faster rate
- is the lower deck behavior comparable to the EX/EXL, best outside or inside?
Except for two differences the original lower deck is identical in shape and thickness to the EX/EXL. The original does not have a .5mm counter bore ( reducing chassis thickness to 2.5mm ) for the lower AT21 ball to sit lower. This counter bore allows a lower roll center. ( Add AT21S and it is .5mm lower so this combination is good if you want to lower your roll center 1mm ) Also, the EX/EXL chassis has cuts that increase flex. I noticed a difference, in my opinion the slight bit of added flex allowed the car to maintain better traction on all surfaces
- this car was probably never updated with the newer plastic parts example P18/19 vs P01/02. Is other parts need to be changed to be reliable? AM23?
There was a running change to ST16 that resulted in a significant increase in durability of the front and rear "CV" joints. If your axles were not rebuilt in the last year and a half , it would be good to change these.
- from what I understand everything is the same geometry just less link positions on the AM01 vs the AM01-1...?
I believe it was only the inner rear toe link position. I didn't notice any other changes
- Are the #3 damper usable in normal weather? I will change the OR07 to be certain. Are they working well with the soft spring?
I haven't tested the #3 dampers nearly enough to have on opinion.
Thanks!
Alexandre
See my thoughts in Red above.
For sure, start using P01-P02 asap !
Jake D.
Last edited by Magnet Top; 07-29-2014 at 09:37 PM.
07-30-2014, 03:27 AM
#6861
Wow thanks guy's so with a dremel and some at21s I will be ok to start 
More seriously in the future I may recuperate some important parts when I will convert my 700l to a ffg. But it seems that on it's original flavour the car is usable!
More seriously in the future I may recuperate some important parts when I will convert my 700l to a ffg. But it seems that on it's original flavour the car is usable!
07-30-2014, 08:58 AM
#6862
Here's another take on it.
If you have the original car the dampers will be silver, in one piece including the sliding mount. They have completely different characteristics to the later darker coloured 2 piece dampers. The damping is stiffer and less linear.
Each to their own but I preferred the old car without the cut chassis as the combination with stiff dampers gave about the right amount of reaction.
When the A700L arrived a year or so later, with the new dampers and cut chassis I tried swapping the parts around in an attempt to separate and understand the effects of the cut chassis and new dampers. The cut chassis definitely produced more traction but also more steering response. The new dampers being slightly softer took away some of the reaction resulting in a great feeling car with more traction than its predecessor, which was a bonus especially on asphalt.
However, the original uncut car with a decent setup on carpet is still something to be reckoned with. Its still amazingly quick. The newer cars are quick in a wider variety of situations.
If you have the original car the dampers will be silver, in one piece including the sliding mount. They have completely different characteristics to the later darker coloured 2 piece dampers. The damping is stiffer and less linear.
Each to their own but I preferred the old car without the cut chassis as the combination with stiff dampers gave about the right amount of reaction.
When the A700L arrived a year or so later, with the new dampers and cut chassis I tried swapping the parts around in an attempt to separate and understand the effects of the cut chassis and new dampers. The cut chassis definitely produced more traction but also more steering response. The new dampers being slightly softer took away some of the reaction resulting in a great feeling car with more traction than its predecessor, which was a bonus especially on asphalt.
However, the original uncut car with a decent setup on carpet is still something to be reckoned with. Its still amazingly quick. The newer cars are quick in a wider variety of situations.
07-30-2014, 09:14 AM
#6863
I have the older chassis with the newer dampers. I would.like to cut my chassis. Is there a template for doing this? If so where to i find it?
07-30-2014, 09:41 AM
#6864
For those who are interested in, I sell a nearly brand new A700 first generation with parts, I'll post it in the F/S thread tonight, PM me if interested 
Cheers,
G-rem
Cheers,
G-rem
07-30-2014, 10:19 AM
#6865
When you refill the GD2 using the tubes syringe etc, do you remove the outdrives?
07-30-2014, 10:34 AM
#6867
07-30-2014, 02:39 PM
#6868
If you need to run long rear trackrods on the original car to reduce bump steer you can fix the links on the underside of the bulkhead using the same screw hole as the top deck attaches. Use a long grub screw. I believe John Doucakis first made the mod, it works well.
Last edited by hana166; 07-30-2014 at 03:04 PM.
07-30-2014, 02:45 PM
#6869
.
Last edited by G-rem; 07-30-2014 at 10:33 PM.
07-30-2014, 05:35 PM
#6870
Way back when the team were experimenting with the cut chassis Oleg did have a schematic to help drivers cut the chassis in the correct place.
If you need to run long rear trackrods on the original car to reduce bump steer you can fix the links on the underside of the bulkhead using the same screw hole as the top deck attaches. Use a long grub screw. I believe John Doucakis first made the mod, it works well.
If you need to run long rear trackrods on the original car to reduce bump steer you can fix the links on the underside of the bulkhead using the same screw hole as the top deck attaches. Use a long grub screw. I believe John Doucakis first made the mod, it works well.
my track rods are already done this way. but thanks for the heads up.