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Old 01-17-2012, 09:28 PM   #1411
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Hi Hugo
I use the complete standard steering because of my personal like.
Yes, I only use the metal ring under the center screew.
Freddy
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:27 PM   #1412
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Originally Posted by erchn View Post
I wonder the same thing about every setup I see. Any chance we could get those two setup "options" added to the PDF? Maybe an X for just a screw, empty for nothing, and a circled X for using ST09 with screw or ballstud?
There isn't sense to make a circled X for using ST09 with screw or ballstud because this is the same as "no screw" for side holes.
When you use ST09 in the side holes the top deck is free for rotation around central screws ( max chassis flex ).
Additional icon for IAS is usefull.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:20 PM   #1413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Babich View Post
There isn't sense to make a circled X for using ST09 with screw or ballstud because this is the same as "no screw" for side holes.
When you use ST09 in the side holes the top deck is free for rotation around central screws ( max chassis flex ).
Additional icon for IAS is useful.
I must be missing something. How do I know if someone is using the fifth hole from the outside (longest link) with our without ST09? The setup sheet doesn't show "frame flex setting" Xs for those top deck mount points.

Your point is well taken for the 4th hole from outside. Maybe just adding all 5 holes that the top deck offers would provide that information without additional markup decoration.

Thanks.
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:07 AM   #1414
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erchn,

There are only two state of upper deck ends fixing:
1. Fully fixed end. Two outer screw or pivot balls without ST09 must be used.
Two additional inner screws (pivot balls) only (without outer screws/balls)
are not enough for secure fixing.

This state is indicated by two outer red dots in setup sheet.

2. Floating end. One central screw must be used. All outer screws or pivot
balls must be removed or used only in conjunction with ST09.
This state is indicated by one central red dot in setup sheet.

There is not any third (and fourth) state of upper deck end fixing for flex setting so we don't need additional markup decoration.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:32 AM   #1415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Babich View Post
erchn,

There are only two state of upper deck ends fixing:
1. Fully fixed end. Two outer screw or pivot balls without ST09 must be used.
Two additional inner screws (pivot balls) only (without outer screws/balls)
are not enough for secure fixing.

This state is indicated by two outer red dots in setup sheet.

2. Floating end. One central screw must be used. All outer screws or pivot
balls must be removed or used only in conjunction with ST09.
This state is indicated by one central red dot in setup sheet.

There is not any third (and fourth) state of upper deck end fixing for flex setting so we don't need additional markup decoration.
HI Oleg,
Thanks for the information. I was confused because of what the manual shows on page 38. But looking at it again it's clear what you say is in the pictures.

It's wasn't initially clear as to why running with st09 was required when not using the outer holes, but I guess it's due to the space between the screw and upper deck, lateral movement could occur.

I think most of my confusion came from the combination of page 30 and 38, where on 30 it shows the possibility of running with just the center screw and st09. Then on page 38 it shows running center screw (with or without st09 wasn't obvious), and in both cases the notes mention that it provides "the softest flex setting". I see now that page 30 and 38 (for the top deck flex setting) are mutually exclusive, and st09 is required on some screw(s) in all cases where not running "fully fixed end".

Thanks again,
Ethan

p.s. I typed that out partially for my edification, possibly to make things clearer for others (unless I was the only confused person :-), and to ensure that my understanding is now accurate.
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:26 AM   #1416
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Has anyone got experience on how battery position affects the handling, in this car specifically.

In terms of initial response, mid corner bite and exit steering, both at high speed (entering a sweeper let us say) and at low speed, for example in a tight technical infield

Oh yeah also how is forward bite affected?

Won't be able to test for a while, input appreciated

Last edited by hana166; 01-18-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:19 PM   #1417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
Has anyone got experience on how battery position affects the handling, in this car specifically.

In terms of initial response, mid corner bite and exit steering, both at high speed (entering a sweeper let us say) and at low speed, for example in a tight technical infield

Oh yeah also how is forward bite affected?

Won't be able to test for a while, input appreciated
Only time I've played with it so far was to move the cells to the R2 (rearmost) position last weekend for a few runs. Gave a lot more mid corner rotation, but seemed to reduce the initial a little. Hard to tell on the exit though, and not so many highspeed corners on the track I was on.
If I get the chance this weekend, I'll try going to the F1 (mid-front) position, but from reading Tom's comments before, that increases the stability. Will be good to see if that happens.

Regards
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:26 AM   #1418
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Must say I really want to experiment with this, I've never moved the battery on other cars.

I noticed you use 4.4 deg castor. I've played with this, between 4 deg and 4.5 the car picks up a massive amount of response and overall steering, particularly on exit.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:46 PM   #1419
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@ Ed = still waiting for the pic on how you measure caster. I am still not 100% sure how to do it properly
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:04 PM   #1420
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Here is how i measure front and rear caster with caliper:
Considering that front steering arm (AM14) is 38 mm long, and rear steering arm (C05) is 23 mm long.
Caster angle alfa
sen alfa = height difference (as shown on instruction manual) / steering arm lenght
Then You look up the value obtained on the charts to figure the
Ex. 2,8 / 38 = 0,073684..
0,073684 = 4 13'
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:51 PM   #1421
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Ran the IAS today and it seemed to do what I hoped it would, which was to help stability into sweepers. In exchange for ease of handling I've given up a little corner speed. However, lap times are right on the money.

The car has the potential for insane speed if you really understand what you are doing, and have the ability to drive it within the window of the set up. It is not difficult to drive, not at all, but I think I realise its me holding the car back, not the other way around
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:54 PM   #1422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danjoy25 View Post
@ Ed = still waiting for the pic on how you measure caster. I am still not 100% sure how to do it properly
oops, sorry! Will post some pics tonight.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:09 PM   #1423
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oops, sorry! Will post some pics tonight.
hmm, ummm, my bad! Didn't end up getting home till 1am last night, and back in the office this morning... so haven't taken any pics yet. Will do so on Monday, as I plan to have a day tweaking the weight balance and other things on my cars.. not much else to do during Chinese new year, everywhere is shut!
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:02 PM   #1424
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I find having to loosen the AT21 pivot ball to relieve top deck tweak to be kind of annoying (when running long upper links), since I have to pop the ball end off each time, which will cause slop over time. I'm thinking of going to XRAY style ball ends and ball studs. Anyone else have an alternative, or find a better way?

Also, I've had one of the P06 downstop collars spin free in my chassis when adjusting the set screw. I ended up popping it back out and filing small slots in the chassis to allow the glue to penetrate. Any other tips to keep this from happening? I think having some sort of knurled metal collar would provide better grip in the chassis.

thoughts?

thanks ya'll.
Ethan

Last edited by erchn; 01-21-2012 at 01:03 PM. Reason: clarify which at21 pivot balls...
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:27 PM   #1425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erchn View Post
I find having to loosen the AT21 pivot ball to relieve top deck tweak to be kind of annoying (when running long upper links), since I have to pop the ball end off each time, which will cause slop over time. I'm thinking of going to XRAY style ball ends and ball studs. Anyone else have an alternative, or find a better way?

Also, I've had one of the P06 downstop collars spin free in my chassis when adjusting the set screw. I ended up popping it back out and filing small slots in the chassis to allow the glue to penetrate. Any other tips to keep this from happening? I think having some sort of knurled metal collar would provide better grip in the chassis.

thoughts?

thanks ya'll.
Ethan
Hey Ethan,

The 4.8mm Kyosho Hard ball cups (gunmetal) are a direct replacement and seem to hold up very well. The standard (black) ones get bent and twisted somewhat easily but the balls seem to stay tight . Thankfully they are inexpensive.

As far as developing tweak, I haven't used ANY of the ST09 in any of my setups and haven't noticed any tweak occurring. I center the deck as best I can then tighten the screws nice and tight. I don't get into too many wrecks, so I don't check it or loosen the deck often. Basically I'm suggesting that you may want to try running without ST09, maybe you'll like the car that way ? btw, to gain some more chassis flex I'll be using ST09 in my next practice sessions. I hope the car remains as nimble as it has been.

Jake D.

Last edited by Magnet Top; 01-21-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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