R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-09-2012, 07:17 PM   #1291
Tech Addict
 
hana166's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 675
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawson View Post
Going back to some of my earliest notes about this car I was always in search of more steering. Tried droop, battery position, raise/lower links and roll center changes.

The IAS was what I was looking for. My car felt like I gained more initial steering and exit. All around the car just felt to turn better. The car had a good arc, didnt fell like it was diving in to hard. Over the longer term, it might be a little easier on the front tires even with the battery in R2 or F1.
Cheers thanks Mark

I'm already quicker with the car on small to medium-sized tracks but not yet where I need to be on the bigger faster ones

I must say however that I'm amazed by the basic handling traits, car feels slow on the track but its actually not

Finding that, as we're not able to play with shock angles etc that increased flex and (subtle) changes in geometry seem to be the key to tuning this car
hana166 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #1292
Tech Elite
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,892
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
Cheers thanks Mark

I'm already quicker with the car on small to medium-sized tracks but not yet where I need to be on the bigger faster ones

I must say however that I'm amazed by the basic handling traits, car feels slow on the track but its actually not

Finding that, as we're not able to play with shock angles etc that increased flex and (subtle) changes in geometry seem to be the key to tuning this car
Slow is control

There is a distinct advantage in being able to run one of longest wheelbase cars once you get on with the outdoor asphalt. Also remember that you have a car that you can have multiple layouts for equipment as well. I am intrigued that in the T-motor layout -this car is still more efficient than my best belt TC with ceramic bearings and all of the devil tweaks.

Hopefully the new team drivers that Oleg is now supporting can provide us more frequent feedback here so we can get all get this car faster.

I'd love to see Steen more active here - after speaking to him at IIC it was clear that he has some great input.
__________________
● AWESOMATIX USA ● ABSOLUTEHOBBYZ ● HEBIKI DESIGN WORKS ●
MDawson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 07:02 AM   #1293
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawson View Post
Because of the cars efficiency in L-motor position - I have been able to actually carry more gear on my car. Motor temps have not been an issue.

.


I agree that the drive train is efficient , spin the wheels and it will rotate forever but put it on the track and the reverse is true due to gearbox wind

Push the car with the same castor, camber, toe and tires and it doesn't roll anywhere near as far as my belt drive xray, the eslastic belt allows for the differances that the front and rear wheels travel in distance.

I would like to see a form of "cushdrive" in the front to rear prop shaft to allow an amount of slip.

Bb
bucketboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 08:22 AM   #1294
Tech Elite
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,892
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketboy View Post
I agree that the drive train is efficient , spin the wheels and it will rotate forever but put it on the track and the reverse is true due to gearbox wind

Push the car with the same castor, camber, toe and tires and it doesn't roll anywhere near as far as my belt drive xray, the eslastic belt allows for the differances that the front and rear wheels travel in distance.

I would like to see a form of "cushdrive" in the front to rear prop shaft to allow an amount of slip.

Bb
You should share your expertise with Hudy. Perhaps you will see your cushdrive.
__________________
● AWESOMATIX USA ● ABSOLUTEHOBBYZ ● HEBIKI DESIGN WORKS ●
MDawson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 09:45 AM   #1295
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketboy View Post
....
I would like to see a form of "cushdrive" in the front to rear prop shaft to allow an amount of slip.
Bb
What do you think, where is the best place for such cush drive - between spur and spur's shaft, between spur's shaft and rear axis, between spur's shaft and front axis or anywhere else in transmission?

Please take into account that our thin steel drives and long thin main shaft have noticable torsion flex already.
Oleg Babich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 10:57 AM   #1296
Tech Initiate
 
speedyfowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 35
Default

Weekend 2 of testing!

Saturday I was back at Lou's Speedway (very high traction), I was trying some changes with springs and dampening to get a better idea how the car reacts to the changes. I went to 1000cst in the rear gear diff, which helped with a bit more on power steering. Next time I want to try moving the battery to R1 or F1 to have a bit more weight forward (the rear end was dragging to much even with only 1.5* of rear toe).

I managed to get TQ with a run that was 0.5 off of my best run on the layout, but my setup last week was a lot easier to drive. In the final, I had some tough luck, my spur nut had loosened off (maybe I didn't tighten it enough initially, but it's thread locked now to be sure it won't happen again).

On Sunday, I had a chance to try this car on a lower traction track. I ran the car with no timing for both classes, boosted and blinky 17.5 rubber touring car (it's kind of a square track, so you don't loose much time on the smaller straight, it's a very technical layout). I decided to start with Ivan's ATS setup, which worked very well in the morning, but had to stiffen up the suspension later in the day once traction came up a bit. I was very happy with this setup: it's has a lot of off power rotation, on power steering, mid corner stability, and was very agile through the chicanes. It was very easy to put where I wanted. (setup attached)

I managed to get Tq and win both mains. In my non boosted main, there was a lot of contact with lapped traffic (to the point that my shoe gooed servo loosened, and my fan got knocked off and dragged), but had no issues with breaking any parts.

Next week I'll be trying some reactive castor, a smaller wheelbase, and and some different battery positions. I'm also going to start off at Lou's with my setup from RC Niagara. I plan on making an order soon to get a second gear diff as well as the IAS.

The more I drive/work on this car, the more I enjoy it!
Attached Thumbnails
Awesomatix EP Touring Car-a700_stevefowler_rcniagaraindoor.jpg  
__________________
Steve Fowler
Team Serious Business
Outlaw RC Motorsports / Protoform
Lou's Speedway/Much Hobby/RC Niagara Indoor
speedyfowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #1297
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketboy View Post
I agree that the drive train is efficient , spin the wheels and it will rotate forever but put it on the track and the reverse is true due to gearbox wind

Push the car with the same castor, camber, toe and tires and it doesn't roll anywhere near as far as my belt drive xray, the eslastic belt allows for the differances that the front and rear wheels travel in distance.

I would like to see a form of "cushdrive" in the front to rear prop shaft to allow an amount of slip.

Bb
Hi Bb,

Can you explain "gearbox wind" please, 22 years of RC racing experience behind me and I've never heard of this technical term before.

I've just tried this using a Cx and the A700 beats it hands down, although I cant be sure if I was subconsciously pushing the A700 more, only to debunk your theory.

If I have nothing better to do at the weekend, I shall perform a more scientific experiment by placing both cars on a hill, letting them go and see which one gets across the finish line first, bit like miniture Soapcar racing, you may have inadvertently started a new fad lol..

Actually I dont think i'll bother!
MarkMcC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 11:37 AM   #1298
Tech Initiate
 
speedyfowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketboy View Post
I agree that the drive train is efficient , spin the wheels and it will rotate forever but put it on the track and the reverse is true due to gearbox wind

Push the car with the same castor, camber, toe and tires and it doesn't roll anywhere near as far as my belt drive xray, the eslastic belt allows for the differances that the front and rear wheels travel in distance.

I would like to see a form of "cushdrive" in the front to rear prop shaft to allow an amount of slip.

Bb
Personally I think that's an advantage of the car (not that it's not rolling as far) but that it has no slip. With the belt drive cars the belts stretch under acceleration and braking, causing a slight delay. With the shaft drive it's direct drive. I found my car had a little more coming out of the corners compared to all the belt drives at my track.

I too have experienced lower motor temps (by about 20-30*F, with the same gearing/speedo setup/motor) and even taking less out of my batteries.
__________________
Steve Fowler
Team Serious Business
Outlaw RC Motorsports / Protoform
Lou's Speedway/Much Hobby/RC Niagara Indoor

Last edited by speedyfowler; 01-10-2012 at 11:50 AM.
speedyfowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 11:54 AM   #1299
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 42
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyfowler View Post
Personally I think that's an advantage of the car (not that it's not rolling as far) but that it has no slip. With the belt drive cars the belts stretch under acceleration and braking, causing a slight delay. With the shaft drive it's direct drive. I found my car had a little more coming out of the corners compared to all the belt drives at my track.

I too have experienced lower motor temps (by about 20-30*F, with the same gearing/speedo setup/motor) and even taking less out of my batteries.
+1

'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'
MarkMcC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 12:49 PM   #1300
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyfowler View Post

I too have experienced lower motor temps (by about 20-30*F, with the same gearing/speedo setup/motor) and even taking less out of my batteries.
My motor is running significantly hotter unfortunately, even managed to cook one motor on Sunday

Car is brilliant to drive though!! Had a 3rd place finish at one of the uk's biggest indoor events in 13.5t boosted class in its first ever run, if I drove better, the car had the pace to win!
Mb3195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 01:14 PM   #1301
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMcC View Post
Hi Bb,

Can you explain "gearbox wind" please, 22 years of RC racing experience behind me and I've never heard of this technical term before.

!
If you have two identical gearboxes connected by a solid prop shaft both with rotate at the same speed, the wheels connected to the gearboxes will also rotate at exactly the same speed but the front and rear wheels are not exactly the sames size due to how they wear and they also take a differant line as you drive around the track, this puts the two gearboxes in conflict with each other "gearbox wind"

While it doesnt have any marked effect on the performace of the car due to the high power or brushless motors it does make the motor work harder, so it gets hotter and the more grip you have the more the gearboxes conflict, the hotter the motor gets.

Drive belts pullies are exactly the same size but due to the elastic nature of the drive train they are more efficient around the track but much less efficient off it.






Now where did I put my anorak?

Bb
bucketboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 01:15 PM   #1302
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mb3195 View Post
My motor is running significantly hotter unfortunately, even managed to cook one motor on Sunday

Car is brilliant to drive though!! Had a 3rd place finish at one of the uk's biggest indoor events in 13.5t boosted class in its first ever run, if I drove better, the car had the pace to win!
Strange. Tell me this are you going to the winter national at Ardent? I'll be over with a large contingent of Irish drivers for the wkd, It would be helpfull to have a fellow A700 driver there to bounce ideas off.

Cheers

Mark.
MarkMcC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 01:36 PM   #1303
Tech Champion
 
JayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 12TH-MAN COUNTRY
Posts: 6,803
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default Awesome!!!

Wow Oleg, just got the car today!!! Very speedie service; just about 4days. Awesome
I will let you know about your last email & you should expect another order soon
__________________
R C 3 G R A F I X _ F U S I O N . G R A P H I X _ S E A T T L E - R/C - R A C E R S _ E M E R A L D C I T Y R C . C O M

A E - 12R5.2 _ S M - REV8 PRO
JayBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 01:42 PM   #1304
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucketboy View Post
If you have two identical gearboxes connected by a solid prop shaft both with rotate at the same speed, the wheels connected to the gearboxes will also rotate at exactly the same speed but the front and rear wheels are not exactly the sames size due to how they wear and they also take a differant line as you drive around the track, this puts the two gearboxes in conflict with each other "gearbox wind"

While it doesnt have any marked effect on the performace of the car due to the high power or brushless motors it does make the motor work harder, so it gets hotter and the more grip you have the more the gearboxes conflict, the hotter the motor gets.

Drive belts pullies are exactly the same size but due to the elastic nature of the drive train they are more efficient around the track but much less efficient off it.






Now where did I put my anorak?

Bb
OK, Googled "gearbox wind" and couldn't find anything mentioned.. If true Oleg has already mentioned the torsonal flex in the shafts etc. Maybe he could provide more insight from a engineers point of view.

All I can go on is what I have found actually running the car: Cooler running, faster aceleration, better top end and more capacity in the cells at the end of the run. IMHO this only proves that the transmission has to be more efficient than a conventional 2 belt system on and off the track.

Last edited by MarkMcC; 01-10-2012 at 02:05 PM.
MarkMcC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2012, 02:10 PM   #1305
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMcC View Post
Strange. Tell me this are you going to the winter national at Ardent? I'll be over with a large contingent of Irish drivers for the wkd, It would be helpfull to have a fellow A700 driver there to bounce ideas off.

Cheers

Mark.
Will be.......gonna be super competitive!
Mb3195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Topeka Onroad Racing Aaron P Kansas/Missouri Racing 10912 12-03-2016 08:53 PM
Bendigo..Vic.. On Road Car Club VoneSkip Australian Racing 17188 11-13-2016 04:24 AM
T.O.P. Racing "Photon" 1/10 EP Touring Car keithander Electric On-Road 9053 02-24-2016 07:51 PM
Touring Car Custom Cut Urethane Chassis Protectors!! Rommel Electric On-Road 220 07-07-2013 10:23 PM
The prototype car is on the winning pace number_one Electric On-Road 163 01-12-2009 11:52 AM


Tags
yokomo


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:09 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0