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Old 11-29-2011, 06:36 AM   #961
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Ok guys just a couple of very simple questions.

1- What are people feeling the actual "on track" difference is between the symmetric and Asymmetric shock settings.

2- Can some one please confirm once and for all do the red x on the set sheets for the underside of the chassis indicate screws left in or screws that have been removed.

Many thanks
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:52 AM   #962
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Ok guys just a couple of very simple questions.

1- What are people feeling the actual "on track" difference is between the symmetric and Asymmetric shock settings.

2- Can some one please confirm once and for all do the red x on the set sheets for the underside of the chassis indicate screws left in or screws that have been removed.

Many thanks
IMO, compared to the conventional shocks, Sym feels like a shock with non-drilled shock caps vs. Asym feels like drilled shock cap on the track. Didnt like the Asym on carpet -made the car feel like it was over dampened, no rebound and lost traction.

The setup sheets need to be intuitive. In terms of screw use - X - marks 'used', for the top deck the - X - marks 'removed'. 'X' or select should just mean 'used'.
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:14 AM   #963
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Originally Posted by MDawson View Post
Had a great weekend with the car. Learned more. Attached is the latest progression. Aggressive set-up. New starting setup for carpet.

The bite was really good at both of the tracks I ran at this weekend (Middle River Hobbies (MD) and Horsham Raceway (PA)). Middle River is small and technical while Horsham is rather fast/technical.

For next week - I would like to get the car to rotate through turns faster.

Biggest gains for this weekend was picking up a better feel with the use of spool. I was able to better find braking points and drive the car in harder. The second biggest changer was moving the front battery forward. The car really woke up and picked up on power steering. I could probably tune in more antidive and play with reactive camber. Getting close to having a more predictable setup that can be tuned with various bodies in ways that predictable.
Hi Mark

You seem to be getting a alot of running mate, could you possibly answer a couple of questions for me please?

You mention that you moved the battery forward, and it gave you more on-power steering, did this have a noticable negative effect on off-power steering at all. As per my previous post, I only got the static corner weights, on my car checked properly after the first day with the car, initially I had the battery in R1 and moved it to R2 when I set the corner weights/balance. Now I had the car out for its 2nd run last wkd and noticed a lack of on-power steering compared to the 1st day (only changes were the CW's), after reading your post about the battery i've came to the conclusion I have gone the wrong way on this.

I have worked out that I have a F46/R54 spilt with the cars corner weights/balance set with the battery in R2 and 30g ballast. Do you have your F/R weight distribution at hand to compare?

Been doing a bit of research on the net, mainly on scale race cars, while many say 50/50 is the holy grail, this can be somewhat misleading, a front engine RWD race cars for example can go as far as 40/60, but what is interesting I couldn't find anything other than 50/50 mentioned as the ideal for a AWD race car.

I'm now thinking about moving the battery to R1 again, and moving the ballast forward to get the weight distribution closer to 50/50 for a more neutral setup, any thoughts on this?

If anyone else has any theories on this or has their corner weights handy, please post them.

Cheers

Mark
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:03 AM   #964
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New editable A700 setup sheet
NEW! Added calculation suspension stiffness, changed marking of screws for frame flex setting - dot instead cross.

A700 setup from Kirill Trofimov, Tikkurila Carpet Challenge 2011

http://awesomatix.com/download/
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:22 AM   #965
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Originally Posted by vlad_vy View Post
New editable A700 setup sheet
NEW! Added calculation suspension stiffness, changed marking of screws for frame flex setting - dot instead cross.

A700 setup from Kirill Trofimov, Tikkurila Carpet Challenge 2011

http://awesomatix.com/download/
looks good, now all it needs is the link lengths
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:15 AM   #966
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Originally Posted by MarkMcC View Post
Hi Mark

You seem to be getting a alot of running mate, could you possibly answer a couple of questions for me please?

You mention that you moved the battery forward, and it gave you more on-power steering, did this have a noticable negative effect on off-power steering at all. As per my previous post, I only got the static corner weights, on my car checked properly after the first day with the car, initially I had the battery in R1 and moved it to R2 when I set the corner weights/balance. Now I had the car out for its 2nd run last wkd and noticed a lack of on-power steering compared to the 1st day (only changes were the CW's), after reading your post about the battery i've came to the conclusion I have gone the wrong way on this.

I have worked out that I have a F46/R54 spilt with the cars corner weights/balance set with the battery in R2 and 30g ballast. Do you have your F/R weight distribution at hand to compare?

Been doing a bit of research on the net, mainly on scale race cars, while many say 50/50 is the holy grail, this can be somewhat misleading, a front engine RWD race cars for example can go as far as 40/60, but what is interesting I couldn't find anything other than 50/50 mentioned as the ideal for a AWD race car.

I'm now thinking about moving the battery to R1 again, and moving the ballast forward to get the weight distribution closer to 50/50 for a more neutral setup, any thoughts on this?

If anyone else has any theories on this or has their corner weights handy, please post them.

Cheers

Mark
You mention that you moved the battery forward, and it gave you more on-power steering, did this have a noticable negative effect on off-power steering at all. As per my previous post, I only got the static corner weights, on my car checked properly after the first day with the car, initially I had the battery in R1 and moved it to R2 when I set the corner weights/balance. Now I had the car out for its 2nd run last wkd and noticed a lack of on-power steering compared to the 1st day (only changes were the CW's), after reading your post about the battery i've came to the conclusion I have gone the wrong way on this.

MD> The R1+spool position provided more mid/exit steering. R2+spool seemed to initiate more entry/mid. You may not have approached it incorrectly. Surface/conditions being different day to day, dependent on sauce/track groove. What did you start with a setup?


I have worked out that I have a F46/R54 spilt with the cars corner weights/balance set with the battery in R2 and 30g ballast. Do you have your F/R weight distribution at hand to compare?

MD>
R1 configuration – Front 630 grams / Rear 677 grams
R2 configuration – Front 612 grams / Rear 696 grams

I'm now thinking about moving the battery to R1 again, and moving the ballast forward to get the weight distribution closer to 50/50 for a more neutral setup, any thoughts on this?

MD> Share your setup that you running. Great advice that I got once from Ron Rossetti & Gil Losi Jr. was that the three things that matter in R/C – tire/shocks/body. The rest is all about lap times and practice. I would say that in the history of cars that I have owned – some steer from the rear (FK05), some steer hard from the mid/front (TC6) and some are more neutral (416/417). A lot of that is drivers preference. Especially with new cars, it is good to try different setups. Motor/power has a great effect on how a car feels on the track. Setting up a mod car would be a much different approach than setting up a car for the 17.5/13.5 classes.
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Last edited by MDawson; 11-29-2011 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:03 PM   #967
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Hi Mark

Thanks for the quick reply. I've only been able to run so far at our clubs temporary carpet track, so it evolves quite abit through the day as the line cleans up, to make things worse the track layout changes every week so its near impossible to compare setups. We run 10.5 boosted on Sorex 28JB's with a min weight limit of 1350g, not as fast as full blown Mod, probably just on or over the limit for the size of the hall to be honest. If ever I needed a permanent track it was now lol.

I built the car to Ivans ETS mod setup, slighty softening the shocks, once I cut the topdeck as advised the car was fantastic, very easy to drive and carried great corner speed. I did try the car without the active caster and found I lost some initial turn in, so back it went.

So during the 2 week wait til the next round I rebuilt the car etc, upon checking the caster with the iphone app, I found my setup off slightly. I checked the corner weights and adjusted with the lipo in the R2 position, perfect crossweights etc. Everything was looking good now, just had to count down the days for the next meeting.

Then last wkd expecting the car to be even better than before, I was to be dissapointed the great steering and balance I had the week before was now gone, now dont get me wrong the car was still very good, just not fantastic. I did have a strange handling problem in q1 and q2, luckly I found the issue just before q3 and managed to haul myself up to the A main (striped the srs screw so it hadn't locked in properly).

I have now set everything up again using the R1 lipo position, you can see the weight distribution of both R1 and R2 in the attached files (no body and carbon setup wheels).

Unfortunately for me, I have to wait for next wkd for the next meeting to see if things have improved, going on what you have also noted I think this will be a setup more to my liking.

Cheers

Mark.
Attached Thumbnails
Awesomatix EP Touring Car-r2-corner-weights-521x800-.jpg   Awesomatix EP Touring Car-r1-corner-weights-521x800-.jpg  
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:31 PM   #968
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Originally Posted by MarkMcC View Post
Hi Mark

Thanks for the quick reply. I've only been able to run so far at our clubs temporary carpet track, so it evolves quite abit through the day as the line cleans up, to make things worse the track layout changes every week so its near impossible to compare setups. We run 10.5 boosted on Sorex 28JB's with a min weight limit of 1350g, not as fast as full blown Mod, probably just on or over the limit for the size of the hall to be honest. If ever I needed a permanent track it was now lol.

I built the car to Ivans ETS mod setup, slighty softening the shocks, once I cut the topdeck as advised the car was fantastic, very easy to drive and carried great corner speed. I did try the car without the active caster and found I lost some initial turn in, so back it went.

So during the 2 week wait til the next round I rebuilt the car etc, upon checking the caster with the iphone app, I found my setup off slightly. I checked the corner weights and adjusted with the lipo in the R2 position, perfect crossweights etc. Everything was looking good now, just had to count down the days for the next meeting.

Then last wkd expecting the car to be even better than before, I was to be dissapointed the great steering and balance I had the week before was now gone, now dont get me wrong the car was still very good, just not fantastic. I did have a strange handling problem in q1 and q2, luckly I found the issue just before q3 and managed to haul myself up to the A main (striped the srs screw so it hadn't locked in properly).

I have now set everything up again using the R1 lipo position, you can see the weight distribution of both R1 and R2 in the attached files (no body and carbon setup wheels).

Unfortunately for me, I have to wait for next wkd for the next meeting to see if things have improved, going on what you have also noted I think this will be a setup more to my liking.

Cheers

Mark.
There is some good work there.

At the end of the day R1 feels like a better balance of steering and traction for my car. A lot depends on the equipment as well. I sacrifice some weight load for the stuff I run. Servo, ESC and Battery weight is a little high in my car. In addition based on gear diff vs. spool, motor heatsink and DCD counter - I could probably shed some running weight.


**Setup prior to R1 move

I had my number above backwards in RED. Now corrected. Like your numbers - the R1 does provide a more equal balance forward and rearward of the chassis.
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Last edited by MDawson; 11-29-2011 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:35 PM   #969
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Originally Posted by MarkMcC View Post
Been doing a bit of research on the net, mainly on scale race cars, while many say 50/50 is the holy grail, this can be somewhat misleading, a front engine RWD race cars for example can go as far as 40/60, but what is interesting I couldn't find anything other than 50/50 mentioned as the ideal for a AWD race car.
S2000s (FR) have 50/50 weight distribution, and reviewed to have the best handling characteristics due to its weight distribution. as for AWDs, the closest to 50/50 is the R35 GT-R (i think it's 53/47 iirc).
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Old 11-29-2011, 10:26 PM   #970
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Here is an easy to drive setup for stock 17.5 that carries good corner speed.
I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. It is based on Ivan's ETS setup.

Jake
Attached Thumbnails
Awesomatix EP Touring Car-a700_setup_jake_d_thanksgiving_indoor.jpg  
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:48 PM   #971
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Originally Posted by MDawson View Post
There is some good work there.

At the end of the day R1 feels like a better balance of steering and traction for my car. A lot depends on the equipment as well. I sacrifice some weight load for the stuff I run. Servo, ESC and Battery weight is a little high in my car. In addition based on gear diff vs. spool, motor heatsink and DCD counter - I could probably shed some running weight.


**Setup prior to R1 move

I had my number above backwards in RED. Now corrected. Like your numbers - the R1 does provide a more equal balance forward and rearward of the chassis.
Car looks good mate, looks like your running Ti screws, how much weight do they save? What weight are you running at the minute?.

I'm running a IP 6200 65c lipo, low profile Savox servo, KO 302 rx, Hobbywing 120a and SP 10.5 mmm. I've also shortened the wires as much as possible, although I see you have too, is that a full size servo your running and what make is the speedo?

My corner weights were taken using carbon setup wheels so this may make my weights look low. Just weighed a setup wheel 10g and the 28JB's 25g each, so you can add another 15g per corner, R1 614F 642R adjusted, so not to far off your setup.

Now i'm happier with the balance, i'll start playing with setup more, I found myself chasing setups before, only to find the corner weights and more importantly the crossweights were out. I'm probably being a bit anal, but its always best to start with the basics first. I can email you the Excel sheet I have if you Pm me your address, stole it from a scale tuning site and modded it a bit for Rc use, once you fill in your CW it works the rest out, even telling you which corners to pre-load to even out the CW if not perfect.

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Originally Posted by ShrewdRacer View Post
S2000s (FR) have 50/50 weight distribution, and reviewed to have the best handling characteristics due to its weight distribution. as for AWDs, the closest to 50/50 is the R35 GT-R (i think it's 53/47 iirc).
Your right 50/50 is ideal, but once you start upping HP you need more weight over the driven wheels in saying that no more than 40/60 from what i've read. It would be interesting to know the WD of the other cars on the market, may be worth its own thread.
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:50 PM   #972
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Car looks good mate, looks like your running Ti screws, how much weight do they save? What weight are you running at the minute?.

I'm running a IP 6200 65c lipo, low profile Savox servo, KO 302 rx, Hobbywing 120a and SP 10.5 mmm. I've also shortened the wires as much as possible, although I see you have too, is that a full size servo your running and what make is the speedo?
With no body - the car is currently at 1300g. I didnt do a pre/post weight with the Ti screws.

RadioPost only has fullsize servos at the moment. The speedo in the picture is a Black Diamond by Advanced Electronics. Speedo should be swapped out in the next weeks with ORCA VRITRA PRO SPEC MK2
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:39 PM   #973
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With no body - the car is currently at 1300g. I didnt do a pre/post weight with the Ti screws.

RadioPost only has fullsize servos at the moment. The speedo in the picture is a Black Diamond by Advanced Electronics. Speedo should be swapped out in the next weeks with ORCA VRITRA PRO SPEC MK2
1300g with no body? Did you add weight to get it to this? Legal limit in the uk is 1350g with body.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:51 PM   #974
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1300g with no body? Did you add weight to get it to this? Legal limit in the uk is 1350g with body.
I'm sure that MarkDawson car is legal weight with the bodies ..He's very higly experience he's no rookie lol
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:46 AM   #975
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I'm sure that MarkDawson car is legal weight with the bodies ..He's very higly experience he's no rookie lol
I didnt mean he wasn't, I just wanted to know if he had to add weight on to get to the weight.

Meaning........will the car be able to get down to 1350g for the UK weight.
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