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Old 03-19-2012, 07:08 AM   #1816
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At times I find the car very fast in the early heats, and as the grip comes up not so fast. Car feels perfect but maybe a bit too stuck sometimes. I do use droop to manage temps. But not rollcentre. Does it work the same way as droop, in that if the car is allowed to roll, it generates more heat in the tyre?
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:36 AM   #1817
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At times I find the car very fast in the early heats, and as the grip comes up not so fast. Car feels perfect but maybe a bit too stuck sometimes. I do use droop to manage temps. But not rollcentre. Does it work the same way as droop, in that if the car is allowed to roll, it generates more heat in the tyre?
Running less droop (5/6/7 range) will generally free up the car.

Depending on the track, tech v. open, allowing the car to roll more can create more mechanical grip which will optimize the car.

I find that using a car to generate more mechanical grip can help keep the tires cooler. That said, you can find a setup that will have a lot of mechanical grip but wear the tires faster. Or make the tires come in sooner in the run. After this past weekend - that would mean droop ranges in the 5/6/7. To me, the drop ranges in the 3/4/5 range make the car roll more, making the chassis work more and keep the tires cooler. Again all things are not independent. Chassis grip & tire grip are not independent things to dial in and out. They do work together.

A famous r/c pioneer once told me that the three things that matter in our cars is bodies, shocks and tires. Everything else is distant second.

Find the right bodies, work on the dampening and prep tires correct. Never that easy right!
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:57 AM   #1818
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At times I find the car very fast in the early heats, and as the grip comes up not so fast. Car feels perfect but maybe a bit too stuck sometimes. I do use droop to manage temps. But not rollcentre. Does it work the same way as droop, in that if the car is allowed to roll, it generates more heat in the tyre?
Does the car change during the day? Or during your run?

If during your run.. then you might overheating ... otherwise your setup just really needs to be adjusted to handle high grip. My current car kinda sucks when grip is low... but is on point when bite is up (Thanks Larry)
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:43 PM   #1819
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Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
At times I find the car very fast in the early heats, and as the grip comes up not so fast. Car feels perfect but maybe a bit too stuck sometimes. I do use droop to manage temps. But not rollcentre. Does it work the same way as droop, in that if the car is allowed to roll, it generates more heat in the tyre?
Would you mind sharing your setup? My setup is quite good when traction comes up and I'd like to compare.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:12 PM   #1820
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Interestingly, I'm having a similar heat up issue at the moment as well... although namely on the rear of the car. Been running an adaption of Steen's ETS setup, and it just doesn't have enough rear grip in lower traction.
Given we've been spec'd to run a tyre that takes a while to warm up and hold onto temp, (the chrips die down after a few mins!), is proving tricky to hang onto.

To support Mark's point, the biggest change I made this weekend was to tyre prep, simply going from FX2 to LRP Carpet 2 (On asphalt, go figure..), and instantly car was now driveable and more locked down. So don't ever overlook that aspect, after all, those 4 black round things are the only contact with the ground (unless your like me and on your roof... then it's game over )

Ran out of time to test more this weekend, but by generally making the car softer did seem to help, as did more droop. But the balance was still off, with the rear being very lively, so need to work on that next time out (I think it's a front too soft/rear too hard combo). Setup attached regardless!

Regards
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:16 PM   #1821
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Interestingly, I'm having a similar heat up issue at the moment as well... although namely on the rear of the car. Been running an adaption of Steen's ETS setup, and it just doesn't have enough rear grip in lower traction.
Given we've been spec'd to run a tyre that takes a while to warm up and hold onto temp, (the chrips die down after a few mins!), is proving tricky to hang onto.

To support Mark's point, the biggest change I made this weekend was to tyre prep, simply going from FX2 to LRP Carpet 2 (On asphalt, go figure..), and instantly car was now driveable and more locked down. So don't ever overlook that aspect, after all, those 4 black round things are the only contact with the ground (unless your like me and on your roof... then it's game over )

Ran out of time to test more this weekend, but by generally making the car softer did seem to help, as did more droop. But the balance was still off, with the rear being very lively, so need to work on that next time out (I think it's a front too soft/rear too hard combo). Setup attached regardless!

Regards
Ed
The FX2 seems a bit more oil than the LRP which has a bit more dry 'tack'. Try to bake the tire with FX2 for 20min?
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:22 PM   #1822
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The FX2 seems a bit more oil than the LRP which has a bit more dry 'tack'. Try to bake the tire with FX2 for 20min?
Tried that, and warming for longer too, Carpet2 just flat out worked better, soon as I switched the car was more stable, and had better traction. Guess it's a combination of surface treatment (very high chemical grip in the asphalt), and those tyres.

I've had similar before though. At TITC, Carpet2 was most stable, mighty gripper a little more aggressive, and the T-cube fastest but so edgey... FX2 got left in the pit-box after one run! Makes me wonder if it's time for a new can...
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:08 AM   #1823
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Good replies on the subject. I need to learn more about additive regime.

On tyre warmers, why would you go shorter or longer on the time, and how do you decide the temperature to warm at?
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:21 AM   #1824
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Good replies on the subject. I need to learn more about additive regime.

On tyre warmers, why would you go shorter or longer on the time, and how do you decide the temperature to warm at?
Temp to warm - depends on the tire compound and its range. The 36R series is generally a 120-160 range tire, the 30R/32R is about the 90-130 range, and 28R and below is sub 90. Running outdoors - always good to get an idea of the track temps throughout the day. A simple approach would be to heat the tires a couple of degrees warmer than the anticipated track temps so they are at operating temp from the beginning. This will help keep the car from developing a different 'feel' during the run.

Additives - run what everyone else at your track runs. Using something different might yield some inconsistent results in the car handling or tire wear. There is no rules here for additives + tire warming. Start with the sauce that is commonly used and experiment with different warming times. Some of the oil based additives perform better with longer heat cycle while 'dryer' solutions just need a couple of minutes to activate. Different compounds will react with the tire compounds in different manners.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:25 AM   #1825
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Cheers Mark makes a lot of sense, I'll have a better understanding over the outdoor season. I was first time outdoor TC less than a year ago.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:34 PM   #1826
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Congratulations to Freddy Südhoff with the German Vice Champion title!
Freddy's A700 pictures from the German Indoor touring car Nationals:
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:40 PM   #1827
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Congratulations to Freddy Südhoff with the German Vice Champion title!
Freddy's A700 pictures from the German Indoor touring car Nationals:
That's Awesome....
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #1828
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Oxu00yIb8
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:00 PM   #1829
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Congratulations Freddy! Great result!

Love the new battery mount system, no more tape!!
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #1830
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Thanks all :-)
I will post later my setup. It's not really different to my latest ones.
The new battery holder are great and no tweak issue with them compared to other brands. Finally the tape come to an end :-)

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