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Old 02-11-2012, 04:43 PM   #1591
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Originally Posted by Mb3195 View Post
Good for slow speed corners, unstable on quicker ones. I personally don't like it!
Interesting. Looking for more initial response (particularly in slow corners). Definitely going to order it.

Very pleased with the progress but I need another light bulb moment or two to get there.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:39 PM   #1592
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Default Testing, testing....

*warning* - going to be a long one again

So, another long day at the track yesterday, and ran through a lot of settings. Track layout was the same as last weekend, but traction was a lot lower. Started out the day by just having a sighting run to check out the track, and check the difference in lap time. Turns out that the traction was a lot lower than last weekend, with the laptime ending up around half a second slower. Car still didn't feel too settled, and still seemed to push.. but still quick!

Anyway, first change I wanted to try was switching back to the roll bars and and a softer springs. Mounted up the 1.1mm bars, and then moved the springs out 1mm. Straight away, the car felt more settled with this change, and more consistent too, finding it easier to place the car in the same place lap after lap, although the fastest lap was similar. So a positive step, and as I expected in some ways from going back to the roll bars.. I've personally, never liked a car without them, just feels wooly when roll control is only on the springs. I did also try softening off the springs more (moving then out 0.4mm) with the roll bars, but again it started to loose consistency.. albeit with same fastest.

Next up, I wanted to try running back to back with the Symetric and Asymetric damping again... and this time, to be quite honest, didn't feel a huge amount of difference! I had to do the switch back and forth twice to confirm this, Lap time was the same, and although the asym felt a bit better over the bumps, so I left it like on asym for the rest of the day.

Next on the list was IAS. Now this was something that I had been wanting to try for a while, just always run out of time! Anyway, didn't take too long to get mounted up and setup out (although helped out mounting some F1 tyres for another racer at the same time!). On track, the car felt like it had more steering all-round on the tighter and twisty sections, but wasn't quite so easy to get into the sweeper off the straight, and seemed to bog down in the middle corner.. so I switched back for the next run, and this was simply the best the car has felt. I think there was a combination of just re-checking the settings (had slightly more toe-in on the rear on one side to the other, and the camber off a little), and the settings before, but it was good everywhere. That was proved out by looking at the times... 32laps, fastest 12.6, avg 12.8, that works out at 6 1/2 mins Can't get much better than that!

Anyway, with that under the belt, next up I wanted to try out the transverse motor setting... now this was an interesting change. Mounted it all up, including moving the battery out 4.5mm, and left the rest of the setup as before. Car even tweaked up dead straight with no adjustment on the RHS! On the track, car did feel like it rolled more, but with the bars, it was really good. Even clocked my first 12.5's of the day, but I ran into issues with the spur. Basically, had the nut come loose, and this made the bevel gear etch a groove into the spur, meaning the nut couldn't hold the spur in place. Not sure how to get round that at the moment... maybe a spur with different material (currently using a Kawada) could stop this. That issue meant I switched back to the longitudinal motor after only two attempted runs, but also gave me the idea that I had the long car a bit too stiff in roll...
On the second run for the trans motor, I also dropped out the reactive castor on the front, seemed better into the corner, but maybe not so good in the middle, but left it as it was, as other things to try!

So last few runs of the day, started playing around with the bars and springs again (spot a theme here!). Firstly, from the same setting, moved the shock out 0.2mm, and kept the same roll bars...and promptly managed to match the 12.5 from the transverse motor, but a bit scattered on the average. So for the final run of the day, went back to the same spring setting from earlier, but using the 1.0mm bar... and bingo. Even with tyres that were well past their best (same set from last weekend ), hit 12.5, and managed 6x 12.7's in a row at one point. Very happy with that, a good improvement, and feeling much happier with how the car felt.

Interestingly, looking back over the final setup now, and looking at what I tested throughout the day, the settings really don't look too different... it's softer on the springs, and with roll bars, but otherwise not a large amount different. Anyway, that's what I'm going to take on the car for Thailand, car re-build is now underway!

Regards
Ed
Attached Files
File Type: pdf EC - TITC Starting Setting.pdf (238.6 KB, 158 views)
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:17 PM   #1593
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I'm also looking forward to a test day mostly with springs and bars. So close to where I need it but a frustrating lack of track time
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:10 AM   #1594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
*warning* - going to be a long one again

So, another long day at the track yesterday, and ran through a lot of settings. Track layout was the same as last weekend, but traction was a lot lower. Started out the day by just having a sighting run to check out the track, and check the difference in lap time. Turns out that the traction was a lot lower than last weekend, with the laptime ending up around half a second slower. Car still didn't feel too settled, and still seemed to push.. but still quick!

Anyway, first change I wanted to try was switching back to the roll bars and and a softer springs. Mounted up the 1.1mm bars, and then moved the springs out 1mm. Straight away, the car felt more settled with this change, and more consistent too, finding it easier to place the car in the same place lap after lap, although the fastest lap was similar. So a positive step, and as I expected in some ways from going back to the roll bars.. I've personally, never liked a car without them, just feels wooly when roll control is only on the springs. I did also try softening off the springs more (moving then out 0.4mm) with the roll bars, but again it started to loose consistency.. albeit with same fastest.

Next up, I wanted to try running back to back with the Symetric and Asymetric damping again... and this time, to be quite honest, didn't feel a huge amount of difference! I had to do the switch back and forth twice to confirm this, Lap time was the same, and although the asym felt a bit better over the bumps, so I left it like on asym for the rest of the day.

Next on the list was IAS. Now this was something that I had been wanting to try for a while, just always run out of time! Anyway, didn't take too long to get mounted up and setup out (although helped out mounting some F1 tyres for another racer at the same time!). On track, the car felt like it had more steering all-round on the tighter and twisty sections, but wasn't quite so easy to get into the sweeper off the straight, and seemed to bog down in the middle corner.. so I switched back for the next run, and this was simply the best the car has felt. I think there was a combination of just re-checking the settings (had slightly more toe-in on the rear on one side to the other, and the camber off a little), and the settings before, but it was good everywhere. That was proved out by looking at the times... 32laps, fastest 12.6, avg 12.8, that works out at 6 1/2 mins Can't get much better than that!

Anyway, with that under the belt, next up I wanted to try out the transverse motor setting... now this was an interesting change. Mounted it all up, including moving the battery out 4.5mm, and left the rest of the setup as before. Car even tweaked up dead straight with no adjustment on the RHS! On the track, car did feel like it rolled more, but with the bars, it was really good. Even clocked my first 12.5's of the day, but I ran into issues with the spur. Basically, had the nut come loose, and this made the bevel gear etch a groove into the spur, meaning the nut couldn't hold the spur in place. Not sure how to get round that at the moment... maybe a spur with different material (currently using a Kawada) could stop this. That issue meant I switched back to the longitudinal motor after only two attempted runs, but also gave me the idea that I had the long car a bit too stiff in roll...
On the second run for the trans motor, I also dropped out the reactive castor on the front, seemed better into the corner, but maybe not so good in the middle, but left it as it was, as other things to try!

So last few runs of the day, started playing around with the bars and springs again (spot a theme here!). Firstly, from the same setting, moved the shock out 0.2mm, and kept the same roll bars...and promptly managed to match the 12.5 from the transverse motor, but a bit scattered on the average. So for the final run of the day, went back to the same spring setting from earlier, but using the 1.0mm bar... and bingo. Even with tyres that were well past their best (same set from last weekend ), hit 12.5, and managed 6x 12.7's in a row at one point. Very happy with that, a good improvement, and feeling much happier with how the car felt.

Interestingly, looking back over the final setup now, and looking at what I tested throughout the day, the settings really don't look too different... it's softer on the springs, and with roll bars, but otherwise not a large amount different. Anyway, that's what I'm going to take on the car for Thailand, car re-build is now underway!

Regards
Ed
Good notes. Hope you had as much time on track as you had on the computer!

I had similar issues with the transverse setting with the spur gear. My issue was tied to the nut not having enough thread depth on the mount to lock down the thinner spur gears. The same with the kawada spur. I fished out a shim that had an ID that would fit the OD of the mount and had no issues after that. I think it was shim from a LOSI shim kit.

Yesterday was my first day on asphalt with the car. It left a major item on the wish list for me. We need dampeners with different grades of dampening. Perhaps a step heavier and one unit with step lighter. That way we have least LIGHT/MEDIUM/HEAVY option for dampening rates.

Considering we have somewhat infinite options for spring rate within a given range and the ASY/SYM settings - the addition of the different dampening rates could cover the gaps.

My first day on asphalt was not as productive. I found that sway bars are critical - that is needed when running sub 100 spring rates. Reactive castor made the car push. The three hole camber links, front and rear made the car tight on entry and caused the car to break lose mid corner. Erratic. Will have to work on adding more camber gain and longer 4-link setups get more stability.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:00 PM   #1595
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i'm currently putting freddys set up on my car and i was wandering if anyone could tell me the measurements of the top links and if you use the short or long turnbuckles? and it would be nice if people could put approx measurements on set up sheets would help save time on set up board
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:11 PM   #1596
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hello,

have a few questions about car handling..

i have my car break lose at the entry of the sweeper after a long straight..
i made the front dampening a little bit stiffer it didn't help much
put 2X0.5mm shim to widen the track and that help a little more but took back my steering on corner entry and exit at the slow parts of the track.

need some help to get a good balance between fast sweeper and slow corners.. wich way do i have to go first..thanks..
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:29 PM   #1597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method699 View Post
hello,

have a few questions about car handling..

i have my car break lose at the entry of the sweeper after a long straight..
i made the front dampening a little bit stiffer it didn't help much
put 2X0.5mm shim to widen the track and that help a little more but took back my steering on corner entry and exit at the slow parts of the track.

need some help to get a good balance between fast sweeper and slow corners.. wich way do i have to go first..thanks..
Yes I had this when I first drove my A700.

One thing helped a lot was 2 deg static rear camber not 1.5, big difference.

Long Links.

Another thing I cut the top deck completely down the middle. This always makes the back stick more in sweepers.

And also, quite useful, is to increase the ackerman, it helps stability in fast corners by reducing mid corner steering.

And lastly, what I think is almost the opposite of most drivers say on this thread
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:56 PM   #1598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixertom View Post
i'm currently putting freddys set up on my car and i was wandering if anyone could tell me the measurements of the top links and if you use the short or long turnbuckles? and it would be nice if people could put approx measurements on set up sheets would help save time on set up board
Each subsequent hole is approximately 7mm longer than the previous. Short links should work fine.

Last edited by erchn; 02-12-2012 at 06:25 PM. Reason: iPhone spell check.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:37 AM   #1599
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Loving the car and getting it closer and closer to where I like it. Switching a lot between the Mazda speed 6 and the Subaru shell at the moment just to get the little bit more initial without losing to much of what the car is like on the rest of the track.

Still finding that the car is pushing a little coming out of the corners after lowering the rear roll centre (which I liked a lot) so going to try stiffening up the rear end slightly to compensate when I'm next out and see what this does to the car.

I do still have 1 problem though !!!!!!!!! The indoor track I do most of my racing on is pretty harsh if you do have an accident from clipping an apex or just generally getting it wrong and the only thing that keeps happening is that the spring clip part of the CVD (ST17) keeps springing open and I'm loosing the bone part on the track (ST13 etc). I've tried heat shrinking around this and this doesn't seem to help, have now resorted to double heat shrinking around them. I appreciate its always the side taking all the load and doing the work and this is an old part of the thread i'm going back to but am I honestly the only one having this problem ?? (and just for info yes I am using the right size screw driver and not over stretching the ST17).

Any help will be appreciated as this really is the only issue i have with the car and is very frustrating when this is the only reason I don't finish a race after clipping one of the sprung loaded apex's or getting tagged by another car in the corner etc

Thanks
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #1600
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Originally Posted by hana166 View Post
Yes I had this when I first drove my A700.

One thing helped a lot was 2 deg static rear camber not 1.5, big difference.

Long Links.

Another thing I cut the top deck completely down the middle. This always makes the back stick more in sweepers.

And also, quite useful, is to increase the ackerman, it helps stability in fast corners by reducing mid corner steering.

And lastly, what I think is almost the opposite of most drivers say on this thread
thanks for answering..

i'm a big fan of the Tom Maquel AKA TBone13 setups..
but i've tried the IAS and was loosing the rear at fast sweeper entry..
i tried lowering the rear roll center by puttin 3mm on the inside camber links..
it didn't work..i taught it was the tires Ride32 the red one for asphalt..infortunatly we have to use them on carpet for the coming championship..pfff

i went back to the standard steering rack this time with the sorex 28 tires JB foam in the morning with the cold weather i started with the soft dampenin'..went from 5.4 (1.2) to soft front to 4.0 (1.2) and from 5.0(2.0) to soft rear 4.0(2.0).. and was the fastest car on the track..
but when the litlle gripp start coming i tried to stiffen a little bit the front and the car start loosing rear end at the fast sweeper..

now i think i should have gone for stiffer dampening front and rear at the same time..

i should have also checked for less toe out 1..actually i'm on 2 each side..

thanks.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:09 AM   #1601
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Where can I go to order an Awesomatix A700 kit?
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:21 AM   #1602
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Where can I go to order an Awesomatix A700 kit?
www.awesomatix.com no where else.

EA
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:11 PM   #1603
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www.awesomatix.com no where else.

EA
and it looks like they are out of stock at the moment !
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:25 PM   #1604
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Specially for European people, we also sell the A700 and spare parts as well
shop.awesomatix.eu - we are in Switzerland
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:42 PM   #1605
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Huge news!

I'm gonna get my kit tomorrow, and now it has a distributor in my country!

Awesome!

Are you racing the Swiss Championship with A700?
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