Has Rubber improved anyone,s experience?
10-03-2008, 05:57 AM
#1
Has Rubber improved anyone,s experience?
Hello all.
Our club is in debate over wether or not to change en masse to rubber tires.
We have a very small group and splitting between several classes seems like a bad idea.
Has anyone had the experience of making the change to rubber tires and regretted it?
Conversely does anyone have reasons for why they prefer racing with Rubber tires?
Any experiences would be appreciated thank you in advance.
Dave.
Our club is in debate over wether or not to change en masse to rubber tires.
We have a very small group and splitting between several classes seems like a bad idea.
Has anyone had the experience of making the change to rubber tires and regretted it?
Conversely does anyone have reasons for why they prefer racing with Rubber tires?
Any experiences would be appreciated thank you in advance.
Dave.
10-03-2008, 06:08 AM
#2
rubber
Hello all.
Our club is in debate over wether or not to change en masse to rubber tires.
We have a very small group and splitting between several classes seems like a bad idea.
Has anyone had the experience of making the change to rubber tires and regretted it?
Conversely does anyone have reasons for why they prefer racing with Rubber tires?
Any experiences would be appreciated thank you in advance.
Dave.
Our club is in debate over wether or not to change en masse to rubber tires.
We have a very small group and splitting between several classes seems like a bad idea.
Has anyone had the experience of making the change to rubber tires and regretted it?
Conversely does anyone have reasons for why they prefer racing with Rubber tires?
Any experiences would be appreciated thank you in advance.
Dave.
Rubber, on the other hand, very consistent in size so all changes are based on the the same metrics. Therefore, you see the impact of changes more clearly and as a result learn more about setup and develop more refined driving skills.
AS for rubber quality, it seems that this is also a bit of a moving target. One mfg recently had a bad batch putting them in the dog house and many suppliers are having troubles keeping up with demand. But generally, there is a rubber tire available that a majority of users will be happy with.
Finally, a friendly warning. Foam or rubber, spec rubber or your choice, spec foam or your choice, are all points of contention and lead to interpersonal management challenges that threaten our continued enjoyment of a track. It takes more than a forum thread to guage racers feelings and also takes an expert negotiator to keep everyone racing.
10-03-2008, 06:16 AM
#3
Todd
Thank you Todd.
Your final paragraph is appreciated and is precisely the reason I decided to put up a forum about it.
If its me alone with my opinion, its just that. An opinion.
If its twenty or thirty impartial contributors, its a consensus.
Thanks again.
Dave.
Your final paragraph is appreciated and is precisely the reason I decided to put up a forum about it.
If its me alone with my opinion, its just that. An opinion.
If its twenty or thirty impartial contributors, its a consensus.
Thanks again.
Dave.
10-03-2008, 07:13 AM
#4
What surface will you be running on? I will assume carpet since you asking now. Here are some pros/cons of each
Rubber Tires Pros
- Last a long time on carpet so can be cheaper
- More durable then foam (no chunking) so better for the novice racers (or really all of us)
- Some people feel carpet is meant for foam and you can't convince them otherwise. So you may lose those racers
Cons
- Difficult to find sometimes
- If not spec then can get out of hand with rim, insert, compound combinations
Foam Tire Pros
- Probably still more common in North America then Rubber for Carpet
- Can be easier to drive then rubber tires
Cons
- Tire truing resulting in a mess of foam, having to change ride height, droop, etc
- Can chunk which can make them more expensive to run if you mess up a bunch of tires
Just my .02.
Rubber Tires Pros
- Last a long time on carpet so can be cheaper
- More durable then foam (no chunking) so better for the novice racers (or really all of us)
- Some people feel carpet is meant for foam and you can't convince them otherwise. So you may lose those racers
Cons
- Difficult to find sometimes
- If not spec then can get out of hand with rim, insert, compound combinations
Foam Tire Pros
- Probably still more common in North America then Rubber for Carpet
- Can be easier to drive then rubber tires
Cons
- Tire truing resulting in a mess of foam, having to change ride height, droop, etc
- Can chunk which can make them more expensive to run if you mess up a bunch of tires
Just my .02.
10-03-2008, 08:38 AM
#5
If any of your racers are going to compete in the WCIC series its nice to have the rubber experience.
Our club ran them togeather, probably a bad mix, two very different driving styles, with some intersecting lines thru the corners, make for some very frustrated rubber tire drivers.
The other problem we had was, one batch of carpet seemed very slick with rubber, and even took a couple of runs to get a good grove in for foam. The other carpet we run works very well for rubber tire.
I'd first run some rubber on the carpet you have to make sure which surface your starting out with. If its too slick nobody is going to have any fun, and thats the first thing you want to keep intact.
Our club ran them togeather, probably a bad mix, two very different driving styles, with some intersecting lines thru the corners, make for some very frustrated rubber tire drivers.
The other problem we had was, one batch of carpet seemed very slick with rubber, and even took a couple of runs to get a good grove in for foam. The other carpet we run works very well for rubber tire.
I'd first run some rubber on the carpet you have to make sure which surface your starting out with. If its too slick nobody is going to have any fun, and thats the first thing you want to keep intact.
10-03-2008, 11:09 AM
#6
Big fan of rubber here.
1. Fit every car with no mods
2. Constant diameter so constant car setup
3. Rewards good driving
About the only advantage of foam (which I do not really see as an advantage) is the instant grip on a green track. Even the hackiest drivers feel fast on foam. But once a line goes down after a round or two of rubber racing grip is no issue at all.
1. Fit every car with no mods
2. Constant diameter so constant car setup
3. Rewards good driving
About the only advantage of foam (which I do not really see as an advantage) is the instant grip on a green track. Even the hackiest drivers feel fast on foam. But once a line goes down after a round or two of rubber racing grip is no issue at all.
10-03-2008, 11:31 AM
#7
I prefer rubber tires because I feel that it makes the car a bit more challenging to drive. They last much longer than foams. You dont have to worry about set up after 2 runs or every run.
10-03-2008, 04:32 PM
#8
I have not driven rubbers on carpet, but my local club may have lost all its sedan racers due to not at least doing a consideration for rubber.
I agree that foam tires create a moving target for car setup.
Droop changes, Caster Changes, Camber changes, Ride Height changes and sometimes those items get overlooked by club racers. Foams are faster, but that is only on carpet. Rubber rules for big asphalt. With a bad setup, tire failure reusults qiucker with foam than with rubber. Foam will peel and chunk and sand away very very fast. When my Oval car is working, tire dust is very very minimal. When the setup is off I can spot the problem very quickly by seeing which tire is overloading or scrubing by the excess dust. Rubber tires may be damaged by a bad setup but in a pinch the tire is still usable.
IMO Rubber tires should be for anything that has a floating A-Arm and SwingShafts (aka CVD's and Half-Shafts) This provide a realistic tire and the sound of rubber on asphalt is awesome.
Foam tires should remain the choice tire for pan cars with solid axles and fixed a-arm.
I agree that foam tires create a moving target for car setup.
Droop changes, Caster Changes, Camber changes, Ride Height changes and sometimes those items get overlooked by club racers. Foams are faster, but that is only on carpet. Rubber rules for big asphalt. With a bad setup, tire failure reusults qiucker with foam than with rubber. Foam will peel and chunk and sand away very very fast. When my Oval car is working, tire dust is very very minimal. When the setup is off I can spot the problem very quickly by seeing which tire is overloading or scrubing by the excess dust. Rubber tires may be damaged by a bad setup but in a pinch the tire is still usable.
IMO Rubber tires should be for anything that has a floating A-Arm and SwingShafts (aka CVD's and Half-Shafts) This provide a realistic tire and the sound of rubber on asphalt is awesome.
Foam tires should remain the choice tire for pan cars with solid axles and fixed a-arm.
Last edited by trailranger; 10-03-2008 at 07:47 PM.
10-03-2008, 04:45 PM
#9
Rubber tires has made racing fun for me again.
When I ran foams it was fun until the cut them down so small that you are lucky to get two or three runs out of them and then set them aside for who knows what. Now if you run foam you don't always have to do this but when you want to run competitively you have to break open the wallet to have an extra set ready to go just in case something happens to the set you have.
Now with rubber tires, very rarely will I ever need a different set. I personally run pre-mounts and most of the guys I race with also run pre-mounts. So we don't have the vodoo magic of messing with inserts.
If it was still foam tires I don't think I would get my son's involved but with rubber tires I am more than happy to bring both of my son's to the track to race. Just my thoughts.
When I ran foams it was fun until the cut them down so small that you are lucky to get two or three runs out of them and then set them aside for who knows what. Now if you run foam you don't always have to do this but when you want to run competitively you have to break open the wallet to have an extra set ready to go just in case something happens to the set you have.
Now with rubber tires, very rarely will I ever need a different set. I personally run pre-mounts and most of the guys I race with also run pre-mounts. So we don't have the vodoo magic of messing with inserts.
If it was still foam tires I don't think I would get my son's involved but with rubber tires I am more than happy to bring both of my son's to the track to race. Just my thoughts.
10-03-2008, 04:58 PM
#11
I started off last season wanting to run foams and was quickly persuaded otherwise. From the start, the car was traction rolling all over the place and I was tearing up a lot of stuff. I switched to rubber and felt the car was more stable (no more traction rolling, but it was a bit loose), easier to drive (not as sensitive), and best of all more forgiving. I think sosidge pretty much hit the nail on the head.
10-03-2008, 05:18 PM
#12
Perfect
Invaluble.
I hope the opinions expressed here help others with the descision of what tire style to choose.
It seems to me based on what I,ve read that it may be only a matter of time before we,re all running rubber.
Kraig:
The comment about you being more inclined to have your kids with you when running rubber says alot to me with regards to how much easier and fun rubber can be .
Thank you all.
Keep em coming.
Dave.
I hope the opinions expressed here help others with the descision of what tire style to choose.
It seems to me based on what I,ve read that it may be only a matter of time before we,re all running rubber.
Kraig:
The comment about you being more inclined to have your kids with you when running rubber says alot to me with regards to how much easier and fun rubber can be .
Thank you all.
Keep em coming.
Dave.
10-03-2008, 06:47 PM
#14
We quit foams and went back to rubber after the 2007 Novak race and will never go back to foams.
We are having a lot more fun running rubber and its saved me a lot of $$ even though I had a (foam) tire sponsor.
In fact you dont see any foam TC in Wisconsin.... except for Pauly practicing
We are having a lot more fun running rubber and its saved me a lot of $$ even though I had a (foam) tire sponsor.
In fact you dont see any foam TC in Wisconsin.... except for Pauly practicing
10-03-2008, 08:02 PM
#15
i like the fact that now with rubber tires you can run a better selection of cars that are out there no need for thicker chassis you need to get for a foam car or all that crap now we can run anything i am looking forward to november . hey dave what car do you have ?