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Old 05-23-2014, 06:47 PM   #10291
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I'm wondering, is there any reason apart from simplicity that there's so few double wishbone front suspensions on F1 cars?

I was looking for a decent front end for my F104 and couldn't find one that'd tick all the boxes for me so I'm tempted to build my own, but I'm not sure which route to take (double wishbone vs. solid lower arms vs. solid lower+upper).
If I had to guess, I'd say it was a couple of reasons. Durability for one thing. Real F1 suspension (and most open wheel racecars) are notoriously fragile and couldn't take the beating we put our cars through. You'd be replacing arms every couple of battery runs. Well I would at least. So sturdy bottom arms and (sometimes) movable upper wishbones is the name of the game.

Second, I'd say is the amount of travel in an F1 car's suspension, both 1:10 and 1:1. The real benefit of a double wishbone suspension is to manipulate camber gain throughout the suspension travel. With the suspension on an F1 car travelling so little and the tires taking up most of the "suspension" action, the arms (and their movement) ends up being secondary. So might as well make them as simple as possible, meaning camber is relatively static.

The Exotek upper arm set is pretty adjustable and would pretty much cover all you'd want in a "pan-style" F1 chassis. Other options that are more double wishbone-y are Tamiya's old F201 chassis or 3Racing F113.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:56 PM   #10292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer1984 View Post
I'm wondering, is there any reason apart from simplicity that there's so few double wishbone front suspensions on F1 cars?

I was looking for a decent front end for my F104 and couldn't find one that'd tick all the boxes for me so I'm tempted to build my own, but I'm not sure which route to take (double wishbone vs. solid lower arms vs. solid lower+upper).
Simplicity is one reason, the others would be weight and durability. Double wishbone suspensions on pan cars, especially open wheel F1 cars, tend to be quite fragile. Also it is difficult finding a good place to mount the shocks with no room for a shock tower. Sure you could set up a push rod suspension but that is heavy and adds weight up high.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:05 AM   #10293
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@viking44, @InspGadgt

Thanks for the answers - when I think about it it makes sense that simplicity and low weight beat a "perfect" geometry in an F1 car. The F113 front assembly looks pretty crowded and heavy..

The main reason I'm still looking and haven't got the Exotek front end yet is that it mounts on the original F104 posts which keeps the whole front assembly a bit too bulky for my liking - a quick meassure shows that it takes up around 9cm (or 3,5 in) front-to-back, which I see as a wasted space and if I can shave an inch or even more from that, I could shorten the whole chasis for better carpet action, lay out my electronics more cleverly, put in a better steering system, etc.

The closest to what I'm looking for is 3racing F109, but that's 200mm, I'm trying to keep within 190mm as various races here go by various rules, from 190 to 210mm width. My motivation is trying to get the best out of a (sub)190mm car even when others have the width advantage.

In any case, it looks like I'll get the Exotek front end if I fail to come up with a decent design of my own.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:28 AM   #10294
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Apparently Exotek has been working on a narrow front end la F113.
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Old 05-24-2014, 12:03 PM   #10295
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The F103 chassis is much shorter than the F104 but it runs the battery crosswise instead of in-line. But the F104 bodies look not so good mounted on a F103 chassis because the body is too long for the wheelbase.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:07 PM   #10296
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Thought I would share what I consider to be the proper way to widen the F104.. The set up is slightly different because I use a Exotek F1R2. Car is 10mm wider at the front as a result and using the rsector widening kit to widen the back. Result allows for a more stable car with higher cornering speed but a lot less compromised steering response due to retaining the pivot point at the same point as the standard.
is very similar to our Fenix S5 Ultra front arm....


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Old 05-24-2014, 11:32 PM   #10297
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is very similar to our Fenix S5 Ultra front arm....
Funnily enough I tried to contact Fenix racing a number of times this year to purchase the front arm to suit an F104. I got a response to my first email saying it was due in a few weeks and then never got any further responses back when I followed up asking for pricing and if it was available yet.

Figured why wait anymore when I can come up with a solution myself. I don't agree it is very similar. The only thing that is the same is that both use the Schumacher Mi5 wishbone sockets. Apart from that the kingpin holder is totally different(Yokomo) and the overall shape is based on the original Tamiya plastic arms, adjusted to suit pre-existing holes in the Exotek F1R2 chassis. Plus it's been made to be 10mm wider than the factory Tamiya arms.
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:14 AM   #10298
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The nice part is the TRF101W or whatever they are calling it has this same type of lower arm for a 190mm setup. When the car comes out the lower arm should be available to make a setup like this.
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Old 05-25-2014, 11:07 PM   #10299
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Just finished putting together this FGX.



It's my first onroad car so car park bashing for now, but will consider racing it in the near future once I get a feel for it.
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Old 05-26-2014, 02:06 AM   #10300
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Very nice! What kind of colour did you use to paint wings?
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:11 AM   #10301
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
The nice part is the TRF101W or whatever they are calling it has this same type of lower arm for a 190mm setup. When the car comes out the lower arm should be available to make a setup like this.
Is there any guess when will be TRF101W available?
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Old 05-26-2014, 01:08 PM   #10302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-PaP View Post
Funnily enough I tried to contact Fenix racing a number of times this year to purchase the front arm to suit an F104. I got a response to my first email saying it was due in a few weeks and then never got any further responses back when I followed up asking for pricing and if it was available yet.

Figured why wait anymore when I can come up with a solution myself. I don't agree it is very similar. The only thing that is the same is that both use the Schumacher Mi5 wishbone sockets. Apart from that the kingpin holder is totally different(Yokomo) and the overall shape is based on the original Tamiya plastic arms, adjusted to suit pre-existing holes in the Exotek F1R2 chassis. Plus it's been made to be 10mm wider than the factory Tamiya arms.
I'm very sorry, but apparently there was some communication problem
there is no S5 Ultra for 104, this arms is only fit our FENIX Chassis
compliments for your front arms, really well done!
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Old 05-27-2014, 05:01 PM   #10303
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Looking to paint my F104 F60 body the recommended Tamiya color, but it looks like the 89922 recommended color by Tamiya is no longer available. Is PS-60 86060 the only other alternative. However, looking at the Tamiya site, the two colors are vastly different. Any idea where to get something close to 89922 in the US? Thanks,
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Old 05-27-2014, 11:10 PM   #10304
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How about these gorgeous bodies?

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Old 05-27-2014, 11:25 PM   #10305
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Very cool...who is making them?
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