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Old 02-03-2014, 08:36 AM   #9991
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Just a quick update.

The CRC WTF-1 just qualified and finished 1-2 at the Snowbird Nationals. With 4 cars in attendance, we qualified 1-2-4-5 and finished 1-2. This version was the pre-production car and we are now full steam ahead getting these cars out and available.

The diff is based off our 1/12 + 1/10th pan cars, carbon fiber, light and strong. The design is different from other mfg's using carbon fiber and in testing, we have had no axle failures. Unlike other designs, the diff gear is mounted on a bearing. This coupled with our double ball bearing, large ring diff hub provides the smoothest, lightest diff in F1 racing.

Even with our optional diffuser installed, and our industry leading 3 mm pure carbon fiber chassis and bottom plate, (thicker, stronger and stiffer than the 2mm used on most cars) the WTF-1 is well under the UF1 weight minimum allowing the racer to place ballast where needed to improved handling.

We are hoping to get them out late this month... keep an eye on the teamcrc dot com site. Thanks for the patience. They will be very competitively priced.


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Old 02-03-2014, 09:25 AM   #9992
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HOT DOG!!! Anyone wanna buy and F1R2 still in the bag??

Scott
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:49 AM   #9993
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Depends on price, if you ship overseas and at what costs
Pm me please.

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HOT DOG!!! Anyone wanna buy and F1R2 still in the bag??

Scott
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:16 AM   #9994
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Originally Posted by Team CRC View Post
Just a quick update.

The CRC WTF-1 just qualified and finished 1-2 at the Snowbird Nationals. With 4 cars in attendance, we qualified 1-2-4-5 and finished 1-2. This version was the pre-production car and we are now full steam ahead getting these cars out and available.

The diff is based off our 1/12 + 1/10th pan cars, carbon fiber, light and strong. The design is different from other mfg's using carbon fiber and in testing, we have had no axle failures. Unlike other designs, the diff gear is mounted on a bearing. This coupled with our double ball bearing, large ring diff hub provides the smoothest, lightest diff in F1 racing.

Even with our optional diffuser installed, and our industry leading 3 mm pure carbon fiber chassis and bottom plate, (thicker, stronger and stiffer than the 2mm used on most cars) the WTF-1 is well under the UF1 weight minimum allowing the racer to place ballast where needed to improved handling.

We are hoping to get them out late this month... keep an eye on the teamcrc dot com site. Thanks for the patience. They will be very competitively priced.


Frank@CRC
Cars looked really good. What tires/compound were you guys running...and was the car at max width (190mm)?
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:46 AM   #9995
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
Try going back to the stock spring and going heavier on the oil? I'd only go to a stiffer spring from the kit if traction was really high. Everything else from your settings sounds really good. You might want to try some harder front springs and make sure you have front droop (less preload) a little higher. I know that sounds backwards, but it will help keep the transfer weight forward and keep the unloaded tire on the track.
I want to preface this by saying that I'm not disagreeing with your recommendation, but I am trying to understand it. Wouldn't going back to the stock spring give me less steering? I suppose stock spring with heavier oil would give me a similar effect in the very beginning of the load on the shock, so that's an interesting idea.

The harder front springs with more droop does indeed sound backwards, but I'm willing to give it a go. I just worry about rocking the boat that much during qualifiers
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:33 PM   #9996
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Originally Posted by Team CRC View Post
Just a quick update.

The CRC WTF-1 just qualified and finished 1-2 at the Snowbird Nationals. With 4 cars in attendance, we qualified 1-2-4-5 and finished 1-2. This version was the pre-production car and we are now full steam ahead getting these cars out and available.

The diff is based off our 1/12 + 1/10th pan cars, carbon fiber, light and strong. The design is different from other mfg's using carbon fiber and in testing, we have had no axle failures. Unlike other designs, the diff gear is mounted on a bearing. This coupled with our double ball bearing, large ring diff hub provides the smoothest, lightest diff in F1 racing.

Even with our optional diffuser installed, and our industry leading 3 mm pure carbon fiber chassis and bottom plate, (thicker, stronger and stiffer than the 2mm used on most cars) the WTF-1 is well under the UF1 weight minimum allowing the racer to place ballast where needed to improved handling.

We are hoping to get them out late this month... keep an eye on the teamcrc dot com site. Thanks for the patience. They will be very competitively priced.


Frank@CRC
I'm glad to hear CRC will be releasing a new car. The more factories involved with F1 the better and I have always been a big fan of CRC pan cars

Best,

Mike
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:23 PM   #9997
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I got to spend a few hours improving the setup of my SP-1 today, to try and reduce the bad push I had into and through corners. What I did:

1. Set the front spring preload to 3mm when measured at the side of the king pin, from the bottom of the arm to the little black plastic washer on the end. I did this since, in theory, that reduced uptravel, which should have improved on-power steering.

2. I switched to CRC 20K side damper lube (from 10K AE diff fluid)

3. I switched from the stock spring to Spec-R springs, starting with 2.6 and ending up on 3.0

This definitely gave me a more steering into and through the corners. Not perfect, but much better. However, coming out of corners, especially onto the straight, it seems the front still picks up a bit as the car can get unsettled and veer to the side when I apply power. I'm still running AE 35wt oil in the top shock.

This all made me realize that I don't quite understand middle chassis (pod) droop (so top shock spring preload) as well as middle chassis ride height and its relationship to grip. My ride height up front is 4.5mm, as it is in the back (measured at the side of the pod in front of the rear wheels). In the middle, it's around 4mm. I have 3mm of spacers inside the shock to reduce pod droop, and the spring is preloaded a bunch, which results in the 4mm measured right where the pod attaches. The middle of the chassis can come up to around 6mm if I lift it up, so the pod has a bit of droop.

Am I in the right ballpark? Should my ride height be even underneath the whole car? If I reduce the number of spacers inside the shock and thus let the pod droop more, won't that make the car have even less on power steering, or am I thinking of this backwards?

Damn pan cars
I would run a heavy center spring with as little preload as possible. If you need to get a Tamiya shock collar and run Tamiya springs. You can run a stiffer front spring, but depending on the bite level this might induce traction roll. Run 5 degrees of caster, 1.5 camber and either 0 toe or 1 degree toe out. i would start with a medium side spring and tune from there. maybe add a slight rake to the chassis to keep the weight transferred to the front of the chassis.
Run the diff as tight as possible. and run some droop in the front end as well
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:31 PM   #9998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team CRC View Post
Just a quick update.

The CRC WTF-1 just qualified and finished 1-2 at the Snowbird Nationals. With 4 cars in attendance, we qualified 1-2-4-5 and finished 1-2. This version was the pre-production car and we are now full steam ahead getting these cars out and available.

The diff is based off our 1/12 + 1/10th pan cars, carbon fiber, light and strong. The design is different from other mfg's using carbon fiber and in testing, we have had no axle failures. Unlike other designs, the diff gear is mounted on a bearing. This coupled with our double ball bearing, large ring diff hub provides the smoothest, lightest diff in F1 racing.

Even with our optional diffuser installed, and our industry leading 3 mm pure carbon fiber chassis and bottom plate, (thicker, stronger and stiffer than the 2mm used on most cars) the WTF-1 is well under the UF1 weight minimum allowing the racer to place ballast where needed to improved handling.

We are hoping to get them out late this month... keep an eye on the teamcrc dot com site. Thanks for the patience. They will be very competitively priced.


Frank@CRC
I'm glad to see CRC involved in F1 , like mike said , more factories are good for this category. I can't wait to see this production kit and you can be sure that rcf1.fr would talk about it For what i've heard and read so far our audience is really curious about this car.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:39 PM   #9999
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Originally Posted by j.d.roost View Post
Cars looked really good. What tires/compound were you guys running...and was the car at max width (190mm)?
i was using pits 571 and 572. 190 mm in front, 188.5 in the back. i had a great car, but some poor judgment and luck in the main.
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Old 02-03-2014, 03:39 PM   #10000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalnut View Post
I want to preface this by saying that I'm not disagreeing with your recommendation, but I am trying to understand it. Wouldn't going back to the stock spring give me less steering? I suppose stock spring with heavier oil would give me a similar effect in the very beginning of the load on the shock, so that's an interesting idea.

The harder front springs with more droop does indeed sound backwards, but I'm willing to give it a go. I just worry about rocking the boat that much during qualifiers
Softer center spring should give better weight transfer as it will respond slower to change. Less jerky in fast to slow transition. Like coming out of a sweeper. You blast into the next corner, front end sticks, half way through the rear end comes around. You've only let off the throttle and maybe had to brake a little, the car is still going fast as hell. But now you go into understeer followed by severe oversteer. Why? The torq of the forward drive is gone, the spring pushes back. Too fast if the spring is too stiff. Weight just transferred back. Now the weight is on the rear wheels half way through the 180* turn. You push like a dump truck. Then out of nowhere the car is facing the wrong direction as mechanical grip on the front end takes over as you go to oversteer.

Stiffer front spring sounds backwards, but it will keep the front end flatter and keep weight from transferring side to side too much. Body roll onto a soft spring that collapses all the way will jerk the car sideways when/if the spring bottoms out. Too much body roll also lifts the inside tire. Again, not the stiffest spring, but enough spring.
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:42 AM   #10001
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New Ride F1 tires have been introduced at the last ETS in germany

http://rcf1.fr/index.php/news/356-nouveaux-pneus-ride
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:36 PM   #10002
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
I would run a heavy center spring with as little preload as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
Softer center spring should give better weight transfer as it will respond slower to change.


I'm really thankful for all the help you guys are giving me, but it's rather difficult to draw a uniform conclusion. I suppose the only thing to do is to try both and see how they work with our track, my car and my driving style.
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:43 PM   #10003
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
Softer center spring should give better weight transfer as it will respond slower to change. Less jerky in fast to slow transition. Like coming out of a sweeper. You blast into the next corner, front end sticks, half way through the rear end comes around. You've only let off the throttle and maybe had to brake a little, the car is still going fast as hell. But now you go into understeer followed by severe oversteer. Why? The torq of the forward drive is gone, the spring pushes back. Too fast if the spring is too stiff. Weight just transferred back. Now the weight is on the rear wheels half way through the 180* turn. You push like a dump truck. Then out of nowhere the car is facing the wrong direction as mechanical grip on the front end takes over as you go to oversteer.

Stiffer front spring sounds backwards, but it will keep the front end flatter and keep weight from transferring side to side too much. Body roll onto a soft spring that collapses all the way will jerk the car sideways when/if the spring bottoms out. Too much body roll also lifts the inside tire. Again, not the stiffest spring, but enough spring.
The problem with the soft spring is that it keeps the weight on the rear end. What it sounds like he's dealing with is a lack of rotation. You need to have the car react to direction change quickly, and a soft spring will not give you that
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:54 PM   #10004
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I am with BP on that one
Had it 2 weeks ago with a 1:12 that was under steered when on power and way oversteered off power.
Changed centre spring with same oil and car was much better.
More onpower steering and less off power steering.
Overall better laptimes and much easier to drive.

Regards Roy
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:07 PM   #10005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
The problem with the soft spring is that it keeps the weight on the rear end. What it sounds like he's dealing with is a lack of rotation. You need to have the car react to direction change quickly, and a soft spring will not give you that
You're right. I guess "soft" is not exactly the right word. It's one of those conditional compromises. Usually one of those decisions we make and then don't have to change much once we get our cars driveable at our local track. The surface doesn't change much and we only require minor dialing for traction. Going under 10 in/lb is too soft and going over 13 in/lb for the center spring generally is too hard in my opinion. I think the stock spring for the SP-1 is just over 11. I'm happy with the stock spring and adjust with oil to change rebound speed. My F1R is the red Tamiya 11.2 spring and response is similar. Both cars have a ton of steering and I usually have to dial out some steering. Small steps one way or the other and a 1/2 in/lb on the spring rate is usually enough.
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