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Old 10-20-2013, 01:34 PM   #9481
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Build your F1 and have fun thats what it is all about really
Thanks for the responses. I will be going on with my F1 build. I just bought a replacement basher/drift car, having a lot of fun with it atm
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:30 PM   #9482
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Does anyone have a good link to a guide or howto on tuning F1/pan cars? Specifically, I'm trying to understand the impact of changing the following:

* Side spring rates
* Side damper rod grease weight
* Side link position (inside, outside, on an angle)
* Top damper spring rate
* Top damper length, position and angle

I have some educated guesses on what each does, but I'd like to understand things a little deeper. I have no real issues with the SP1 kit setup, but it'd be nice to know what I can tweak if needed.

Thank you in advance!
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:17 PM   #9483
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Originally Posted by metalnut View Post
Does anyone have a good link to a guide or howto on tuning F1/pan cars? Specifically, I'm trying to understand the impact of changing the following:

* Side spring rates
* Side damper rod grease weight
* Side link position (inside, outside, on an angle)
* Top damper spring rate
* Top damper length, position and angle

I have some educated guesses on what each does, but I'd like to understand things a little deeper. I have no real issues with the SP1 kit setup, but it'd be nice to know what I can tweak if needed.

Thank you in advance!
First, this is a nice resource that is mostly transferrable to F1
http://richardchang.com/hobby.php?topic=112setup

*side spring - for rubber tires, it needs to be stiff enough to stabilize the car. Softer makes the car rotate harder, but it may lift tires in high traction. To soft and the car will be very raective, and may be hard to drive straight. Too stiff and it can be skatey. The relationship between the side damper grease and the spring is strong, and you can use them in combination to get at what you want.

*side damper - for carpet it will be a lot stiffer than asphalt in general. For pardus tires, probably really stiff (100K -200K), pit tires less so (30-125K). I like to use the damper tube to control the roll of the car so I can use the side spring I want. Lately I have been going stiffer on the tube and a little lighter on the side spring. For carpet most of the traction rolls come off the rear end - the car's weight shifts across the football pivot and goes over that way. The front end usually does not cause the roll.
Going too stiff will make the car less reactive. The softer the grease the quicker the car can transition. Too soft and there is noting to stop the car from lifting tires. On asphalt, this is not a problem, so you are looking more at how quickly the car is reacting, and if the car is generating enough rear bite. Sometimes a stiffer tube can help stabilize the car on asphalt if the weight is moving too fast and breaking the rear end loose.

side link position - in or out I am not exactly sure how much difference it makes. My first thought is that wider might be helpful because the link articulation is not as extreme, and therefore less roll steer. I know that I thought the Exotek cars with the wider link in comparison to the Tamiya V2 cars were a little more consistent in the UF1 MIDWEST races I went to last year.

Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster.

Center spring - Asphalt you really want to run as soft a spring as you can get to start. Sometimes you will run in to a really hooked up track where you can run a heavier spring, but that is not really that common. 95% of the time the softer spring is the best.

Carpet, not so much. I have been anywhere from the a red tamiya mini car spring (like 10lb) to a 20lb spring. Generally, a stiffer spring is more on power steering.

Shock position - the further forward the pivot point (chassis connection point), the more the car will steer. Moving it back helps to stabilize.

Shock angle - I feel like as the height of the rear of the shock increases, it hooks the rear end up. I think it has more to do with how much the shock moves in relation to the amount of pod movement as well as being similar to how the shock position works.

Shock length - this is basically your droop on the car. More droop = more off power steering. You need some amount of droop if the track is bumpy, but you don't need much at all if the track is smooth. 1 mm can be a lot. If the car is dumping on the nose and wants to spin, take droop out. If it doesn't get into the corner, add droop. Be aware too that the center ride height is important as well. A little sag at the center pivot can help the car hook up on launch.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:23 AM   #9484
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:07 AM   #9485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
First, this is a nice resource that is mostly transferrable to F1
http://richardchang.com/hobby.php?topic=112setup

*side spring - for rubber tires, it needs to be stiff enough to stabilize the car. Softer makes the car rotate harder, but it may lift tires in high traction. To soft and the car will be very raective, and may be hard to drive straight. Too stiff and it can be skatey. The relationship between the side damper grease and the spring is strong, and you can use them in combination to get at what you want.

*side damper - for carpet it will be a lot stiffer than asphalt in general. For pardus tires, probably really stiff (100K -200K), pit tires less so (30-125K). I like to use the damper tube to control the roll of the car so I can use the side spring I want. Lately I have been going stiffer on the tube and a little lighter on the side spring. For carpet most of the traction rolls come off the rear end - the car's weight shifts across the football pivot and goes over that way. The front end usually does not cause the roll.
Going too stiff will make the car less reactive. The softer the grease the quicker the car can transition. Too soft and there is noting to stop the car from lifting tires. On asphalt, this is not a problem, so you are looking more at how quickly the car is reacting, and if the car is generating enough rear bite. Sometimes a stiffer tube can help stabilize the car on asphalt if the weight is moving too fast and breaking the rear end loose.

side link position - in or out I am not exactly sure how much difference it makes. My first thought is that wider might be helpful because the link articulation is not as extreme, and therefore less roll steer. I know that I thought the Exotek cars with the wider link in comparison to the Tamiya V2 cars were a little more consistent in the UF1 MIDWEST races I went to last year.

Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster.

Center spring - Asphalt you really want to run as soft a spring as you can get to start. Sometimes you will run in to a really hooked up track where you can run a heavier spring, but that is not really that common. 95% of the time the softer spring is the best.

Carpet, not so much. I have been anywhere from the a red tamiya mini car spring (like 10lb) to a 20lb spring. Generally, a stiffer spring is more on power steering.

Shock position - the further forward the pivot point (chassis connection point), the more the car will steer. Moving it back helps to stabilize.

Shock angle - I feel like as the height of the rear of the shock increases, it hooks the rear end up. I think it has more to do with how much the shock moves in relation to the amount of pod movement as well as being similar to how the shock position works.

Shock length - this is basically your droop on the car. More droop = more off power steering. You need some amount of droop if the track is bumpy, but you don't need much at all if the track is smooth. 1 mm can be a lot. If the car is dumping on the nose and wants to spin, take droop out. If it doesn't get into the corner, add droop. Be aware too that the center ride height is important as well. A little sag at the center pivot can help the car hook up on launch.
Holy cow, thank you for that long and detailed answer and for the link, that was exactly the information I was looking for. I think several of my theories were correct, and you helped to clarify the other areas of uncertainty. Much appreciated
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:13 AM   #9486
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
side link position - in or out I am not exactly sure how much difference it makes. My first thought is that wider might be helpful because the link articulation is not as extreme, and therefore less roll steer. I know that I thought the Exotek cars with the wider link in comparison to the Tamiya V2 cars were a little more consistent in the UF1 MIDWEST races I went to last year.

Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster.
I've been told that a longer link lowers the rear roll center... how true that is I have no idea
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:20 AM   #9487
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I've been told that a longer link lowers the rear roll center... how true that is I have no idea
This is possible. I have a tamiya v2 I built with a 100mm side link inspired by the new speedmerchant 1/12 with the long links. Its good

The 3racing f109 had 2 link length settings and the longer link was always more hooked up.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:49 AM   #9488
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I've been told that a longer link lowers the rear roll center... how true that is I have no idea
Longer links reduce rear steer
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:15 AM   #9489
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I'm about to paint a couple new bodies and I have some questions about painting the wings. I've seen posts with guys using primer (Krylon), and people just spraying the wings with Fastcolor and then putting clear coat on them. Which method will hold up the best in a racing environment? What kind of clear coat are people using? I know they will get beaten up pretty bad, but I'd like to use whatever method won't chip off completely the first time I run the car. I've used vinyl before but I want to try paint on the liveries I'm doing this time.

Thanks!
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:11 PM   #9490
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Thanks for the help with tire selection for use on an F109.

I mounted the Pits up on the Ride wheels (sold thru Thunder Power). tires are glued to track. But after a couple of practice sessions, and a few dings into the Clik-Trak etc, the inners of the front rims are badly cracked (i'm guessing when on impact they're forced into the steering arm/upright).

Any other wheel recommendations for the F109 ?
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:04 PM   #9491
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Longer links reduce rear steer
+1, same as angled links (front are narrow, rear are wider).
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:54 PM   #9492
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Longer links reduce rear steer
What does that actually mean?
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:50 PM   #9493
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What does that actually mean?
I took it to mean the camber gain that you can control via camber link angle and length.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:18 PM   #9494
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What does that actually mean?
Well theoretically speaking the mono ball/link rear suspension shouldn't work...but due to play in the pivots it does.

When the links move they move in an arc so the pivot balls on the rear pods also move in an arc and not straight up and down. Now if you only have 1 link attached and you pivot the pod the link will pull the pod toward that side of the chassis causing the axle to no longer be perpendicular to the center line of the car. This is rear steer...if you remember back to your childhood...back when we used to ride around on "Big Wheels"...there was another trike called the "Green Machine" which steered by pivoting the rear axle. The links on our RC cars do pretty much the same thing.

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Old 10-27-2013, 08:27 AM   #9495
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Default SWEEP F1 TIRES

Anyone have any advise on the Sweep F1 tires? Good, bad so so etc. I tried to use the search function but could not find any kind of review or input.
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