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Old 05-13-2013, 10:13 PM   #8311
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
So we have several answers to choose from here:

Tamiya is lying about the tires.

Pit is lying about what they are supplying Tamiya.

The tires are the same.

I'm pretty sure they are the same. I'm also pretty sure the batches are different, since Pit is removing or adding a logo piece to the mold to get the TCS in the side. I can tell you that for example, HPI Trans am tires have had batches that were definitely harder than others. It's not like these guys are selling 10,000 tires a month. It's entirely possible you are getting the same tires, especially if you are buying them from the same place or you have several sets new in bag and are just mounting them.
Thank you, finally. Batch to batch variance will always occur. Compound can be the same, but two batches may not/never be exactly alike.

I look like at it from a Chocolate chip cookie POV. Ever bake chocolate chip cookies? Do they come out the same, always? Mrs. Buddha always get my QC treatment!
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:14 PM   #8312
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
So we have several answers to choose from here:

Tamiya is lying about the tires.

Pit is lying about what they are supplying Tamiya.

The tires are the same.

I'm pretty sure they are the same. I'm also pretty sure the batches are different, since Pit is removing or adding a logo piece to the mold to get the TCS in the side. I can tell you that for example, HPI Trans am tires have had batches that were definitely harder than others. It's not like these guys are selling 10,000 tires a month. It's entirely possible you are getting the same tires, especially if you are buying them from the same place or you have several sets new in bag and are just mounting them.
Pictures speak louder than words.
what you say could be true but i predicted exactly what was going to happen when i tested today. I just purchased those tires from TQ last week, the TCS set i used last season (8mths ago) were purchased from RCH which gets their tire through Tower. Rob you say that you are "pretty sure" which means that you really cant say with 100% accuracy that they are. I am saying with 100% accuracy that they are not the same.

Ok so lets say that they are the same then whats your opinion on what happened today? If it were a messed up batch then why do both 572's have the wave and not just one? Maybe you or anyone could post a pic of a TCS tire with the wave? Do you not agree that the tires i ran today are different? Even if it is a bad batch they are still different are they not?


FYI i build molds and you cant remove the TCS logo, it is a different mold for the TCS tires. The TCS logo protrudes outward so the mold has "TCS" machined into it. just a little information from a CNC machinist
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #8313
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
Pictures speak louder than words.
what you say could be true but i predicted exactly what was going to happen when i tested today. I just purchased those tires from TQ last week, the TCS set i used last season (8mths ago) were purchased from RCH which gets their tire through Tower. Rob you say that you are "pretty sure" which means that you really cant say with 100% accuracy that they are. I am saying with 100% accuracy that they are not the same.

Ok so lets say that they are the same then whats your opinion on what happened today? If it were a messed up batch then why do both 572's have the wave and not just one? Maybe you or anyone could post a pic of a TCS tire with the wave? Do you not agree that the tires i ran today are different? Even if it is a bad batch they are still different are they not?


FYI i build molds and you cant remove the TCS logo, it is a different mold for the TCS tires. The TCS logo protrudes outward so the mold has "TCS" machined into it. just a little information from a CNC machinist
Ok I will post pictures of my tires, which I have done the same paragon stripe. Now my tires are newer TCS tires, and a set of pits which are over 1 1/2 years old. They have been in a plastic bag for most of that time since I was mostly racing TC last summer and I have been using TCS tires lately to be TCS legal. Both tires have a bunch of carpet runs on them. Both took paragon gfx pretty much the same way, I have 2 photos 15 min apart.

The reason I say the tires are not different is to what length is this helpful to Tamiya or Pit? I have talked to the person who initiated the rebadge face to face and he told me they are 571 and 572 tires. Why did he lie to me?

As far as molds, I was specifically told by a friend who worked at Hobbico and developed projects for them that rubber tire molds can be made in that fashion. He worked with the Chinese vendors on tires among other things. I guess he was not telling the truth either.



http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rjv...333bb.jpg.html
http://s474.photobucket.com/user/rjv...90844.jpg.html

The real issue is that you are insisting that the tires are different, like no possibility of variation in QC but rather something completely different. Nothing is going to be exactly the same. What I am trying to tell you is that even if you got tires from Tower, so what? Unless we hear otherwise, all the TCS tires in country sold to date could have been 1 run of production. I do not know. Maybe it's 3 batches. How many runs of Pit branded tires? Again, who knows, until somebody says otherwise..
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Last edited by robk; 05-13-2013 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:38 PM   #8314
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Thank you, finally. Batch to batch variance will always occur. Compound can be the same, but two batches may not/never be exactly alike.

I look like at it from a Chocolate chip cookie POV. Ever bake chocolate chip cookies? Do they come out the same, always? Mrs. Buddha always get my QC treatment!
True but you can bet Tamiya's QC is very strict especially since they are not made "in house". Pit delivers to Tamiya, Tamiya inspects each batch if they are out of spec the reject them and PIT will have to replace. Think about it they do not have to accept subpar products. Tamiya is one of if not the biggest RC mfg on the planet and I am sure They do not order 100 at a time! I can see PIT tires being out of whack here and there but its very rare that you see a bad Tamiya part in any fashion, which is why they get premium prices for their product. Rob 10,000 tires is only 2500 sets world wide, I think the number is higher than that!! Tamiya will squeeze every dime out of everything they make (buy a new dif and you still have to buy rings???) If Tamiya offered a deal with PIT saying that we guarantee we will purchase 100k tires in a span of 24mths If you will sell them to us at X.XX you know PIT jumped on it for the volume and now Tamiya makes 80% profit on each set at wholesale!
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:48 PM   #8315
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Ok I will post pictures of my tires, which I have done the same paragon stripe. Now my tires are newer TCS tires, and a set of pits which are over 1 1/2 years old. They have been in a plastic bag for most of that time since I was mostly racing TC last summer and I have been using TCS tires lately to be TCS legal. Both tires have a bunch of carpet runs on them. Both took paragon gfx pretty much the same way, I have 2 photos 15 min apart.

The reason I say the tires are not different is to what length is this helpful to Tamiya or Pit? I have talked to the person who initiated the rebadge face to face and he told me they are 571 and 572 tires. Why did he lie to me?

As far as molds, I was specifically told by a friend who worked at Hobbico and developed projects for them that rubber tire molds can be made in that fashion. He worked with the Chinese vendors on tires among other things. I guess he was not telling the truth either.

The molds are made in at least three pieces. top,bottom and center section. the TCS logo would have to be a complete new bottom piece yes you could replace it but typically when you make molds you keep the sets together because they are machined together, especially with the amount of tires being made.If the TCS tires were molded in the way you say, you would have "flash" around the logo. Neither one of us are in that facility so we could both be wrong. Your friend didnt lie to you but Hobbico is not Tamiya or PIT. I have no reason to lie to you I dont sell any of it. I am only speculating on that. The guys overseas are really efficient on machining processes, amazing really.

Well one thing to think about is if PIT wants Tamiya to have direct access to their Formula!! And it has already been stated by many that the PIT tires are quicker in most cases, ya never really know!

Also the paragon Gfx doesnt absorb on any tire so thats not really going to prove anything, try the black can if you have some.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:06 PM   #8316
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I dont really get your picture Rob. You have a tire thats 1 1/2 years old and a new one and the compound you are using doesnt absorb. It also apparent that it is put on way thicker than what i did.Last but not least we can barely see it!! LOL


No drips going down the sides!!
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:27 PM   #8317
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Look again, it took me a while to add links so you can see the full size picture. I didn't want to clog up the thread with gigantor pictures.

I put paragon on the tire. My result does not match yours, which is what I have been trying to tell you, there may actually be variances in the batches. You do not have a corner on the facts because you have a CNC machine and an engineering degree.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:02 AM   #8318
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Look again, it took me a while to add links so you can see the full size picture. I didn't want to clog up the thread with gigantor pictures.

I put paragon on the tire. My result does not match yours, which is what I have been trying to tell you, there may actually be variances in the batches. You do not have a corner on the facts because you have a CNC machine and an engineering degree.

LOL! Is that the best you can come up with? Ya know Rob I will be honest I am a little disappointed. Thats not even a good attempt at either a crack on me or that completely ridiculous picture you took of those tires. I dont know everything but I know BS when i see it and that my friend is BS!!

How can you have different batches with the same traits but still have waves in the PITS and no waves on the TCS? Show us a TCS tire with Waves, its not that complicated really.

Paragon GFX DOES NOT SOAK IN and we all know that so your not fooling anyone, why dont you just wipe vaseline on it and wait 2 years to see if it fades GEEEESH man Cmon at least make it interesting, that is your proof?? Those could be HPI tires for all we know. WOW I am really done this time OMG.......

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Old 05-14-2013, 12:14 AM   #8319
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
Also the paragon Gfx doesnt absorb on any tire so thats not really going to prove anything, try the black can if you have some.
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
Paragon GFX DOES NOT SOAK IN and we all know that so your not fooling anyone, why dont you just wipe vaseline on it and wait 2 years to see if it fades GEEEESH man Cmon at least make it interesting, that is your proof?? Those could be HPI tires for all we know. WOW I am really done this time OMG.......

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Both took paragon gfx pretty much the same way, I have 2 photos 15 min apart.
This is comical Rob stated that he used Paragon GFX which is Paragon ground effects....the BLACK CAN. The same thing you are telling him to use. What you are ASSUMING is that Rob used GFX2 which is in a white can and not the same as GFX. You dont know what is what so here is a little picture for you so you understand.

Below is a link to a picture of both.....Maybe you need to clean your computer screen and read whats on there.

https://www.rakuten.co.jp/rc-rainbow/img1030487255.jpeg
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:17 AM   #8320
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How about you just email them and ask. shimizu@uranus.dti.ne.jp

You'll need to brush up on your Japanese. HA!
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:47 AM   #8321
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This is comical Rob stated that he used Paragon GFX which is Paragon ground effects....the BLACK CAN. The same thing you are telling him to use. What you are ASSUMING is that Rob used GFX2 which is in a white can and not the same as GFX. You dont know what is what so here is a little picture for you so you understand.

Below is a link to a picture of both.....Maybe you need to clean your computer screen and read whats on there.

https://www.rakuten.co.jp/rc-rainbow/img1030487255.jpeg
You are completely right, I made a mistake and apologize but that doesnt make an excuse for using a really old set of old tires compared to a set of newer tires and completely slobbering it on, to the point where it is running down the side of course its not going to absorb even if those both were not 572's. It is obvious that i only used a very small amount of compound to give it a chance to soak in . If you are going to compare an experiment than the variables need to be at least close to the same. Maybe you missed the news flash but i compared a NEW set this morning and provided feedback. And the set I provided pictures of were used two weeks ago not a year and a half ago.
Where is your contribution to this argument, do you have a pic of waved TCS tires on your camera, or just the GFX link? Or are you just here to jump on the bandwagon? Just wondering.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:00 AM   #8322
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You are completely right, I made a mistake and apologize but that doesnt make an excuse for using a really old set of old tires compared to a set of newer tires and completely slobbering it on, to the point where it is running down the side of course its not going to absorb even if those both were not 572's. It is obvious that i only used a very small amount of compound to give it a chance to soak in . If you are going to compare an experiment than the variables need to be at least close to the same. Maybe you missed the news flash but i compared a NEW set this morning and provided feedback. And the set I provided pictures of were used two weeks ago not a year and a half ago.
Where is your contribution to this argument, do you have a pic of waved TCS tires on your camera, or just the GFX link? Or are you just here to jump on the bandwagon? Just wondering.
Im not jumping on any bandwagon your running off at the mouth about what Rob did wrong when your clearly in the wrong in ASSUMING what he was doing. I dont have a dog in this fight but you are looking at things from your POV only and not taking anything else for what it is....none of this is proven FACT anything you are showing could be specific to what you are doing so it just might be in your "world" but not world wide and you dont want to even be open this possibility. That is why I think people are all up in your Kool-Aid.

The only tires that I have ever used were the TCS tires and I had no issues with them on carpet. Now if you want to talk about shoddy quality control and what not what I saw with the Pardus tires would make your head spin.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:27 AM   #8323
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Not really, thats all i ever glue!
these are my TCS' that i ran the entire season, the tear happened two weeks ago when i somehow traction rolled on asphalt
Wait...so you are only gluing the thin outer lip and not the wide flat part that goes on the flat of the rim?
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:08 AM   #8324
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I saw that there are results up from the first VF1 race, (http://vf1club.com/results.html)
please show us some pictures from the event.. starting field...
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:16 AM   #8325
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I saw that there are results up from the first VF1 race, (http://vf1club.com/results.html)
please show us some pictures from the event.. starting field...
Lightfoot says he'll have a video up soon. I'm waiting patiently for someone to put up pictures but if doesn't happen soon, my head is gonna burst!
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