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Old 05-09-2013, 07:04 PM   #8221
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Originally Posted by edhchoe View Post
Keeping two different compounds for manufacturing may not be cost effective unless one material is much cheaper than the other. Pit shimizu tire prices stayed the same so the material cost must be pretty close. (If they indeed change the compound)
Changing the material cost nothing , changing a mold cost thousands! I complete change in compounds is not needed only a higher or lower silicone/rubber mixture by a few percent is all it takes. I just started this F1 thing so maybe i dont know what I am talking about Its all in my head!!
I just purchased and mounted a brand new set of TCS rears and hard pits, if the weather holds up i will take some pics and show you guys what I am talking about. Now with that being said i have not purchased tires in a few months so they could actually be the same now but we will see. But until someone employed by PIT or Tamiya chimes in none of us will ever really know!

At our last event my team mate Clay handed me a set of 571's as i was having rear traction issues with the TCS and the car instantly went quicker(It was 140* track temps) he was actually the one that bought this to my attention! Today i also tested the combo and once again the Pits were quicker and noticeably had more grip. Maybe its just our TX humidity, who knows!
This is our track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9OvOXZe9JU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILa-4eOvXcA
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:28 PM   #8222
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
I am positive they are different, Take a brand new set of both and run them for 10 min and you will see that the 571 show a very strange wear pattern where as the TCS look more like a normal scrubbed in tire. On our big track the 571's are consistently 2 tenths quicker back to back . And i am only referring to the rear tires I didnt care for the TCS fronts at all. Think about it its TAMIYA we are talking about and they dont leave anything as is you can bet they added their "touch" to the compound. Why else would the 571/572's even still be on the market?? That wouldnt be a smart business move for PIT. Maybe the weather conditions here in TX magnify it but they are not the same. IMO the TCS rears a med compound, in a 10min main on a track with temps around 140 they go away quicker than the 571's. Trust me when i say i have tested them ALOT!!
Yet in a post above this you say the TCS tire is harder, this post they are a medium?
Sorry man, not convinced with the test results.

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Indeed. The same compound was specified
As I heard from insiders when they came out but didn't want to come across as an authority on the subject. Wasn't 100% certain but as I said my car shreds for me on both TCS and Pits.

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Originally Posted by Vyger View Post
As previously stated, the TCS tires are the same tires from Pit. The only change Tamiya made was adding the TCS logo to the side wall for an easy tech inspection. I'm 100% sure of that.

Now, Tamiya ordered the tires roughly two years ago…is it possible that Pit has changed their compound in the mean time? Maybe they developed a faster tire and left the Tamiya tires as is…using an older formula.
The authorities have now spoken. Cuz if anyone knows.
Thanks Vygerdude.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:02 PM   #8223
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The real question is how old are the sets of tires? There can be variances in runs of tires even within a rating/model. A friend in the hobby industry (non Tamiya lol) explained the several variables involved with a rubber mold and how they affect the end result. It sounds to me that there could be differences based on what run of tires you have. Or even more likely the number of runs and tire treatment could also explain the differences.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:37 PM   #8224
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Yet in a post above this you say the TCS tire is harder, this post they are a medium?
Sorry man, not convinced with the test results.

What are you talking about, read carefully I say that the TCS tires are what i would call a med compound, the hard PITS work better in hotter conditions. I am not really trying to convince you of anything , just stating my experiences. Your a grown up , believe what you want. Have you ever been on a track with 150* temps?



As I heard from insiders when they came out but didn't want to come across as an authority on the subject. Wasn't 100% certain but as I said my car shreds for me on both TCS and Pits.

Never said the TCS were better or worse , the PITS just work better on our track. And i heard otherwise from my sources.



The authorities have now spoken. Cuz if anyone knows.
Thanks Vygerdude.
I have been doing this as long as you have

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
The real question is how old are the sets of tires? There can be variances in runs of tires even within a rating/model. A friend in the hobby industry (non Tamiya lol) explained the several variables involved with a rubber mold and how they affect the end result. It sounds to me that there could be differences based on what run of tires you have. Or even more likely the number of runs and tire treatment could also explain the differences.
Thats kind of what i meant by my last post but the fact that my team mate was the one who noticed it before i did and i verified it. My tires were purchased at the same time but like you said batches could be different.

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:43 PM   #8225
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Any of you coming to TX for the USVTA event? Would love to get a chance to race you guys!
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:03 PM   #8226
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Any of you coming to TX for the USVTA event? Would love to get a chance to race you guys!
Yes I am coming
With regards to the compound debate, the simplest answer to the issue is batch variation. Manufacturing variances allow for a couple of percentage variation either way. The age of the resins, cycle times, temperature and humidity in the factory can all affect the finished product without any intentional changes to compound.
I know enough people at Tamiya to know that the TCS tires are 571/572
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #8227
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MantisWorx, you stated that you're positive that TCS and Pit tires are of different compounds. However, they are the same compound. You can believe what you want, but please don't make others believe in something that isn't quite correct. We all experience different things that lead us to our own conclusions but the tires are the same.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:08 PM   #8228
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HMMMMM at the top you have scrubbed in hard pits on the left and TCS on the right. On the bottom you have new PIT hards on the left and new TCS on the right. Since they are not scrubbed in there isnt much of a difference but it is not the same.
Black paragon striped at the same time.

after 15min:


Ok well I am done I will just write it off as different batch , which is more than likely what is going on. Moving on now.

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Old 05-09-2013, 09:25 PM   #8229
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:44 PM   #8230
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:48 PM   #8231
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Ok well I am done I will just write it off as different batch , which is more than likely what is going on. Moving on now.
That must be it then, as you said, grown ups can believe what they want to.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:52 PM   #8232
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The tcs set of tires I have are completely different compound then my R1-H. I ran them back to back in our last series race. Some post the times u can see it. I have the temps track/air every 30-45mins on my laptop also. Ran the same med fronts back to back on that run too. That is my opinion. I stand behind it 100%
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:48 AM   #8233
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Have you ever been on a track with 150* temps?
Wow, that's a hot track!

For those of us outside the USA 150F = 65C (approx).

In Melbourne the hottest track I've run on so far is 55C (131F) with 35C air temp (95F), bumpy outdoor asphalt medium grip with 40m straight (130 feet).

I personally haven't had any success with Pit rears at such high temps and use the Ride R1 on the rear with excellent results in high temps. I stick with Pits on the front because of the Ride R1 fronts tendency to understeer.

Pits make fantastic tyres. I particularly like the Pit 575 soft Rear which is my weapon of choice when the weather turns cold - which in Australia means the track is under 20C (68F).
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:59 AM   #8234
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The other week we had a UF1 race on a 145F track and it's still spring here in L.A. I haven' t tried the TCS-branded tires, as I don't have a TCS-legal car, but the 571/572 combo worked great. BTW, Cuda was at that race, but I don't know if he knew the track temp.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:54 AM   #8235
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That must be it then, as you said, grown ups can believe what they want to.
Exactly, and pictures dont lie.......
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