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Old 12-19-2012, 07:26 PM   #6526
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The new TRG does as well but if you've taken a look at the new TRG 112, all it's standard suspension mounts are just outside the body. Yet for some reason people have made far less of a fuss about this car than some others, and why is that? Maybe because deep down, for all it's adjust-ability and bling, its still a king pin suspension??
More likely because no one has really looked at it too closely and all the photos posted here have been body off shots. The problem is only on the wide version though, it looks like the 180mm version has the upper link mounts inside the body.

I know I looked at pictures of the F112 and never really looked at the front end, the rear was the interesting part.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:54 PM   #6527
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You and that poster seem to agree with having rules not allowing non-solid axle f1's but for different reasons. Also another post said f1 cars (real or RC) are not the pinnacle of car racing yet you mention the current solid axle design is 'what works the best'. But not on all surfaces like you said. Fgx will beat f104 in certain conditions. If they are that close in performance with, maybe, slight advantage for f104 why not allow fgx and embrace more f1 RC enthusiasts? No matter how much money you spend on a fgx it will not have a clear advantage over a solid axle car in all situations.
If you want to run the FGX then run them, no one is stopping anyone running one especially as in the US the UF1 rules specifically allow them. There are no rules preventing you from running them and as long as people stick to the FGX.

We have a different situation here in the UK, changing the rules to allow the independent suspension will make no difference as we have no importer, you have to buy the car and spares from Hong Kong. Amongst all the F1 racers I know here there is only one FGX, and I don't know whether others will import them if they are allowed. Removing the solid axle rule has been discussed here. I'm against it because as we race two classes it would mean having to have foam and rubber FGXs as well as our normal cars.
It would also open up the type of cars that can be used, if they are allowed I would be tempted to look at building my own car based around an ABC Genetic or Xpress Mini rear end, HPI Europe had a prototype F1 based on their Super Cup rear end that worked really well. By keeping to solid axle keeps people from trying to find an advantage by custom building more sophisticated cars.

If 3Racing had not brought out the FGX, would we be discussing whether independent suspension should be allowed in future?

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Btw, My first RC car was f101. I was as enthusiastic about it as I am about my fgx or f1r.
Been at it a while myself, there seems to quite a few of us who have been into it for years and have kept the interest going even through the barren years. I started F1s with a Tamiya Ligier Matra in 1982 - I suddenly feel old!
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:02 PM   #6528
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
More likely because no one has really looked at it too closely and all the photos posted here have been body off shots. The problem is only on the wide version though, it looks like the 180mm version has the upper link mounts inside the body.

I know I looked at pictures of the F112 and never really looked at the front end, the rear was the interesting part.
Looking at the assembly instructions (admittedly I don't read Japanese so may have missed something) It appears all it does is change the the lower and upper arms to shorter ones but they appear to mount to the same points on the chassis... so 180 or 200 the mounts will be outside the body
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:19 PM   #6529
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Looking at the assembly instructions (admittedly I don't read Japanese so may have missed something) It appears all it does is change the the lower and upper arms to shorter ones but they appear to mount to the same points on the chassis... so 180 or 200 the mounts will be outside the body
The upper arm turnbuckles appear to be the same length, just moved outwards for the wide car. Interestingly, the 200m wide F111 had the links mounted inside the body, moving the mounting posts and longer turnbuckles should fix it on the F112.

Wide:


Narrow:
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:29 PM   #6530
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If 3Racing had not brought out the FGX, would we be discussing whether independent suspension should be allowed in future?
What if Tamiya came out with a FGX-like but more efficient chassis design?
Tamiya could easily put their own rear independent suspension and f104 front end and start selling them. Europe has good Tamiya supply chain so you won't have problem buying them at fair price. That would be cool.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:40 PM   #6531
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
The upper arm turnbuckles appear to be the same length, just moved outwards for the wide car. Interestingly, the 200m wide F111 had the links mounted inside the body, moving the mounting posts and longer turnbuckles should fix it on the F112.
what can I say... the pics show one thing, the instructions show something else... but even in the pics it's only the front upper arm mount that moves... the rear arm mount stays in the same place, so still outside the body

when someone actually gets one we'll know for sure
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:44 PM   #6532
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What if Tamiya came out with a FGX-like but more efficient chassis design?
Tamiya could easily put their own rear independent suspension and f104 front end and start selling them. Europe has good Tamiya supply chain so you won't have problem buying them at fair price. That would be cool.
They did, the F201, but it was AWD which was a weird choice. Otherwise they are pretty awesome.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:49 PM   #6533
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Does anyone else find this amusing?
On one hand the f1 crowds are saying they don't want the new f1's with the 1/12 scale like front ends because they want to keep the realism (I personally don't like some of the new front end designs) but then in the same breath say if you want to run a car with independent rear suspension (as per the real cars) then no way. Must run solid axle.
Bit hipocritical if you ask me.

Just my 2c worth.
Who is stopping people running an independent rear end? Unless I'm missing something everyone running to UF1 rules can run the FGX.

The 'F1 crowd' wants to keep front suspension mounting points inside the body so it looks more like the real thing, which is quite different to keeping the front end realistic with accurate shaped moulded arms. I don't want to allow pan car front ends because it just looks ugly and I know what would happen if they were allowed. If the TOP front end works best then everyone will just make up a lower plate and bolt the pan car front end to their F1s, so instead of everyone having an F104 front end everybody now has a TOP front end. You end up back in the same position with everyone running the same parts, it's just a different manufacturer and doesn't look as pretty.

As for a solid rear axle, well the problem is that even though there is the FGX it's not a proper competition F1 with independent rear suspension, just look how many parts and modifications have to be thrown at the basic kit to get it reliable. If independent suspension is allowed expect to see an F1 with a rear end looking like a high end touring car with a price tag to match.

If it's hypocritical wanting a solid axle while wanting a scale looking car, how far do you want to take it? Are we being hypocritical by using a flat plate chassis instead of a monocoque? Because a solid axle isn't scale, should we allow an F1 body on an RC10R5.2?
In the US no one is really that bothered about a solid axle, plenty of FGXs are running and no one seems to be thinking about building their own IRS car. This side of the pond the FGX isn't available anywhere and removing the solid axle rule isn't going to make any difference to the cars we run and the people who race F1s, but does mean that if a company develops a competition IRS car we can make sure we don't all have to go out and buy one to keep up.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:40 PM   #6534
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They did, the F201, but it was AWD which was a weird choice. Otherwise they are pretty awesome.
I used have a f201. 4wd is not right for f1. I don't think tamiya was serious about that car. I would not mind paying more for a IRS F1 car by Tamiya. I already wrote an email asking for one.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:09 AM   #6535
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Is the suspension mount in or out of the body? I pity the race organizer.

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Old 12-20-2012, 08:28 AM   #6536
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I have the Tamiya F104W McLaren MP4/5B kit

If I paint the drivers body, harness, and helmet from the outside of the shell will it hold up to the rigours of driving ? Or will it need to be a shelf queen ?

If so, are the Tamiya acrylic paints suitable for the job ?

Cheers.

Alan
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:30 AM   #6537
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Is the suspension mount in or out of the body? I pity the race organizer.
I doubt any race organizer would have an issue with that. Even though some of the mount is outside of the body at least they have made the attempt at a suspension that resembles an F1 front suspension.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:14 AM   #6538
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Speaking of the F201, does anyone know if you can mount a F201 body onto a F104?
Here is a side by side pic of an F201 body next to an F104X1:
(I measured the CF pattern body as well and the dimensions are the same)


The F201 body would have to be trimmed a bit different from the cut lines of the rear section to accomodate the pod / motor / wing section.


The front section should fit OK, again would have to be cut differently from the cut lines.


The F201 body is wider - enough to clear the way the battery is mounted.


The F104 body is fairly narrow in comparison - even with the side pods installed.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:03 PM   #6539
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Are there any special steps to seal the decals on tire sidewalls? Or do you just stick them on and leave it at that?
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:18 PM   #6540
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Are there any special steps to seal the decals on tire sidewalls? Or do you just stick them on and leave it at that?
You can use a qtip with thin ca to treat the edges.
This will help them to stay on but by no means is it permanent
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