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Old 12-17-2012, 05:18 PM   #6481
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Actually of all the solid axle F1 cars out there, the new TRG 112 looks to be the best. You can have it either 180 or 200mm wide. Beautifully done car!! I wonder how it compares in price to the Tamiya F104 V2? Also, who is the US distributor?
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:25 PM   #6482
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I do actually find it ironic that the scale version of a racing series at the forefront of innovation and revolutionary development is still stuck firmly past and doesn't seem to want to change
A racing series at the forefront of innovation and revolutionary development isn't F1, that's World Endurance Racing. Just compare the Audi R18 e-tron or Toyota TS030 to an F1 car.
Full size F1 is all about building a car based around a lot of very restrictive rules that limit what the teams can build and limit how much power the engines have, with only detail differences between them. R/C F1 is very similar to the modern full size class.

The appeal of F1 isn't that it's some pinnacle of r/c racing, for that we would run 1/12th scale or 1/8th scale on road. F1s are a simple, relatively cheap class that doesn't need constant adjusting and maintenance that doesn't require you to buy the car of the month to keep up like other classes. The fact the class uses a solid axle and sprung kingpin front suspension isn't because the class has always been limited to that and nothing else was allowed, it's because various alternatives have been tried over the years and the pan car design has proved the fastest in most cases. We've had 4wd, independent suspension, even multi-link suspension pan cars and monocoque chassis designs over the years but like other pan car classes it always ends up coming back to the simple suspension that has proven so successful.

As for stuck in the past, well you could say that about every R/C class today as the "throw any idea out there and see if it works" happened back in the 80s. If you want innovation in R/C these days then go start racing 2wd and 4wd buggies, that's where they have started trying different ideas again and are back to the chassis of the month.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:37 PM   #6483
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Originally Posted by brushless55 View Post
what could some say is the best chassis for racing?
thanks!
That's a bit of a loaded question, and open ended as well.
What are you going to do with it?
TCS? UF1? Indoor? Outdoor? Foam ? Rubber?
To be honest I'm not convinced there is a"best" chassis. There are a lot of good products on the market and more coming. I really think it comes down to how much effort you want to put into making it work. You can go fast with just about anything if you put the time into it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:50 PM   #6484
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Actually of all the solid axle F1 cars out there, the new TRG 112 looks to be the best. You can have it either 180 or 200mm wide. Beautifully done car!! I wonder how it compares in price to the Tamiya F104 V2? Also, who is the US distributor?
That will be Reflex Racing
http://www.reflexracing.net/TRG111_c_72-2-0.html
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:58 PM   #6485
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
That's a bit of a loaded question, and open ended as well.
What are you going to do with it?
TCS? UF1? Indoor? Outdoor? Foam ? Rubber?
To be honest I'm not convinced there is a"best" chassis. There are a lot of good products on the market and more coming. I really think it comes down to how much effort you want to put into making it work. You can go fast with just about anything if you put the time into it.
And also important is what the top guy at your location is driving.

There is no guarantee the OP will be able to reproduce the same results even if he bought the car from the top driver. But he will have 5% of what is needed to be fast. The other 95% is what he will have to come up with on his own through practice.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:18 PM   #6486
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
A racing series at the forefront of innovation and revolutionary development isn't F1, that's World Endurance Racing. Just compare the Audi R18 e-tron or Toyota TS030 to an F1 car.
Full size F1 is all about building a car based around a lot of very restrictive rules that limit what the teams can build and limit how much power the engines have, with only detail differences between them. R/C F1 is very similar to the modern full size class.

The appeal of F1 isn't that it's some pinnacle of r/c racing, for that we would run 1/12th scale or 1/8th scale on road. F1s are a simple, relatively cheap class that doesn't need constant adjusting and maintenance that doesn't require you to buy the car of the month to keep up like other classes. The fact the class uses a solid axle and sprung kingpin front suspension isn't because the class has always been limited to that and nothing else was allowed, it's because various alternatives have been tried over the years and the pan car design has proved the fastest in most cases. We've had 4wd, independent suspension, even multi-link suspension pan cars and monocoque chassis designs over the years but like other pan car classes it always ends up coming back to the simple suspension that has proven so successful.

As for stuck in the past, well you could say that about every R/C class today as the "throw any idea out there and see if it works" happened back in the 80s. If you want innovation in R/C these days then go start racing 2wd and 4wd buggies, that's where they have started trying different ideas again and are back to the chassis of the month.
My point is why ban or eliminate certain vehicles from your races when there's no reason? If the FGX and TOP Rebel actually gave a real advantage, then everyone would be running them and not F104s. By not letting them compete, no one is giving anyone a chance to actually see if anything is better than an F104.

As far as an advanced F1 costing $600, many TC guys spend that and more for the best, why wouldn't there be a market for a high end "super accurate" F1?
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:41 PM   #6487
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I agree. If the f1 class was burgeoning and over crowded, enforcing more strict rules to make it fair would make sense. However, for a class that is dwindling, lax regulations may help grow the size of participation.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:16 PM   #6488
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I agree. If the f1 class was burgeoning and over crowded, enforcing more strict rules to make it fair would make sense. However, for a class that is dwindling, lax regulations may help grow the size of participation.
Exactly, especially if its "just for fun", what's the point of limiting it so you can pretty much only run a F104? If its "just for fun", I should be able to run whatever I want as long as its "F1"-ish and has a proper motor.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:02 PM   #6489
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Thanks for the link Terry.

I can't wait for someone to do a full track test of the TRG 112, to see how it compares to all the other F1 cars.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:40 PM   #6490
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Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
My point is why ban or eliminate certain vehicles from your races when there's no reason? If the FGX and TOP Rebel actually gave a real advantage, then everyone would be running them and not F104s. By not letting them compete, no one is giving anyone a chance to actually see if anything is better than an F104.

As far as an advanced F1 costing $600, many TC guys spend that and more for the best, why wouldn't there be a market for a high end "super accurate" F1?
Sedan's popularity is nowhere near 7-8 years ago. At that point, you could buy a FT TC3 for like $250, same with a XXXS.

Sometimes it's ok to keep things simple.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:07 PM   #6491
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The main reason for popularity of F1 is the realism and livery of the vehicles themselves. You start using an F1-ish vehicle and begin to start losing touch of the very essence to what attracted you in the first place. Time and care go into these vehicles to make them look awesome, respect that notion.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:07 AM   #6492
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
A racing series at the forefront of innovation and revolutionary development isn't F1, that's World Endurance Racing. Just compare the Audi R18 e-tron or Toyota TS030 to an F1 car.
Full size F1 is all about building a car based around a lot of very restrictive rules that limit what the teams can build and limit how much power the engines have, with only detail differences between them. R/C F1 is very similar to the modern full size class.

The appeal of F1 isn't that it's some pinnacle of r/c racing, for that we would run 1/12th scale or 1/8th scale on road. F1s are a simple, relatively cheap class that doesn't need constant adjusting and maintenance that doesn't require you to buy the car of the month to keep up like other classes. The fact the class uses a solid axle and sprung kingpin front suspension isn't because the class has always been limited to that and nothing else was allowed, it's because various alternatives have been tried over the years and the pan car design has proved the fastest in most cases. We've had 4wd, independent suspension, even multi-link suspension pan cars and monocoque chassis designs over the years but like other pan car classes it always ends up coming back to the simple suspension that has proven so successful.

As for stuck in the past, well you could say that about every R/C class today as the "throw any idea out there and see if it works" happened back in the 80s. If you want innovation in R/C these days then go start racing 2wd and 4wd buggies, that's where they have started trying different ideas again and are back to the chassis of the month.
At one time F1 was the pinnacle of racing for both innovation and drivers. The rules were not always this restrictive. Unfortunately this lead to a huge gap between the companies with a lot of money to spend on R&D and the ones who did not. Wanting to make the sport more interesting to spectators the rules became more and more restrictive over the years to what we have now. Personally I would say that while F1 isn't exactly the pinnacle of innovation any longer...it is still the pinnacle in terms of drivers.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:10 AM   #6493
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Originally Posted by GryphunRacing View Post
The main reason for popularity of F1 is the realism and livery of the vehicles themselves. You start using an F1-ish vehicle and begin to start losing touch of the very essence to what attracted you in the first place. Time and care go into these vehicles to make them look awesome, respect that notion.
And those cars are excellent, I just like the idea of a chassis underneath that is at least similar to a real F1 car as well. That's why I picked up an FGX, couldn't get past the cool factor of an RC F1 with a true F1 layout (mid engine, fully independent suspension with laydown shocks).
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:18 AM   #6494
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Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
My point is why ban or eliminate certain vehicles from your races when there's no reason? If the FGX and TOP Rebel actually gave a real advantage, then everyone would be running them and not F104s. By not letting them compete, no one is giving anyone a chance to actually see if anything is better than an F104.

As far as an advanced F1 costing $600, many TC guys spend that and more for the best, why wouldn't there be a market for a high end "super accurate" F1?
Quote:
Originally Posted by edhchoe View Post
I agree. If the f1 class was burgeoning and over crowded, enforcing more strict rules to make it fair would make sense. However, for a class that is dwindling, lax regulations may help grow the size of participation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
Exactly, especially if its "just for fun", what's the point of limiting it so you can pretty much only run a F104? If its "just for fun", I should be able to run whatever I want as long as its "F1"-ish and has a proper motor.
That is a catch 22 unfortunately. If you let the F1-ish cars run now to build the class you can never go back to having the scale class that drew most of the people in the first place.

A lot of us who run F1 now have been running them for a long time. We've seen the class grow and disappear several times now and remember in previous F1 growth spurts what ultimately killed the class was the F1-ish cars. Because the F1-ish cars had 1/10th pan car wheels/tires they had a greater selection of compounds available and the wider rear wheels also helped for a much more hooked up car. This was back when all the F1 cars were F103 width. Now with more narrow cars, rubber tires, foam tires, ect...its is even more difficult to try and keep racing fair.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:41 AM   #6495
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
That's a bit of a loaded question, and open ended as well.

To be honest I'm not convinced there is a"best" chassis. There are a lot of good products on the market and more coming. I really think it comes down to how much effort you want to put into making it work. You can go fast with just about anything if you put the time into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edhchoe View Post
And also important is what the top guy at your location is driving.

There is no guarantee the OP will be able to reproduce the same results even if he bought the car from the top driver. But he will have 5% of what is needed to be fast. The other 95% is what he will have to come up with on his own through practice.
great answers thank you very much
now the pressure is on me to practice not worry if I bought the right chassis to start with
thanks
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