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Old 03-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #4336
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Originally Posted by 6376vette View Post
I'm mixed on the idea of serpent xray etc making a f1. On one hand I think it would bring great exposure to the f1 class. On the other it will be expensive.Then I think that no one is complaining about the f104xi at $250-$300 less body. Honestly it costs money to go fast in any class.I don't think a high end car would hurt the class just change the game a little. The only way I see it being a big problem is if these new chassis are seconds faster and not a couple tenths. After all isn't that the goal of manufacturers? To make a faster chassis? If not then we would all have f101 chassis because they were "good enough"
Agreed. If any other MFGs jump into the class it will be with a narrowed version of their current 1/10 200mm pan car and they will not be cheap.

I would challenge XRAY to make an F104 Pro or FGX type kit for under $300.00 with no additional hop ups or aftermarket parts required. If Mike and Troy can put out full carbon upgrade kits for under $100, a Manufacturer should be able to source a complete kit of the same precision and quality for that price point. As far as width, 200mm or less. Maybe make options from 180 to 200mm.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:58 AM   #4337
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F1 is dyeing here in Japan,even F1GP has half of the enteries this year, F1 GP runs spec tires and only F103 size rims in one class and 180mm in another class. But they do not require any body rules.
The lack of bodies painted like real F1 cars and the use of touring car wings mounted on the front of the cars has killed F1 here.F1GP has turned F1 in to just another class that looks nothing like a real car.
F1 GP is dying so they have started running a few classes for the 1/12th scale Yokomo Super GT car along side the F1 classes.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:08 AM   #4338
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The FGX may or may not be a great car and it may not technically be legal. It's got 2 big things going for it. One is that it's priced well. $120 for an F1 car is awesome. Yes it has it's negatives but it is priced nicely for someone who just wants to race cheaply. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll win but they can get into the class on a small budget and then decide where to go from there. The other thing it has going for it is that it nearly single handedly caused F1 to take off in much of the US, especially in Texas. It has been a class that has been slow to grow but then suddenly exploded. Sometimes it takes just 1 new vehicle to bring life to a class. Last year the 22 brought the dying 2wd off road buggy class back to life. This years it's F1. Things are cyclical and nothing retains it's popularity forever. Just enjoy it while it's good, regardless of which car or width.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:30 PM   #4339
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The FGX doesn't require a lot of help. Front springs, rear springs and the right tires and you're racing. The aftermarket chassis helps with durability and have only been on the market for a couple weeks. For a car that just came out, it sure is drawing a lot of attention and support, along with that a couple of detractors. It will be a very good outdoor paved surface car.
How close on lap time is the car to a straight axle car, on carpet, with good tires and springs as the options?

Why would at least 4 companies now make chassis for the car if it was not needed?
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:52 PM   #4340
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How close on lap time is the car to a straight axle car, on carpet, with good tires and springs as the options?

Why would at least 4 companies now make chassis for the car if it was not needed?

to number one, I dont have exacts, but same driver, pretty close. With new chassis, equal or better.

#2, because the upper deck and front end were made out of recycled Hollywood beer bottles. And there wasn't as much room as there could have been to mount motor/hardware. I would say the chassis upgrades were not only needed but mandatory.

It is/can/will be a good car. Better than anything else? In some situations yes. But it definitely has its shortcomings.

The car is cheap and different. Thats the draw, after that..........
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:56 PM   #4341
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How close on lap time is the car to a straight axle car, on carpet, with good tires and springs as the options?

Why would at least 4 companies now make chassis for the car if it was not needed?
I would say within .2 seconds or less on a carpet surface on average with a better driver less. I did get the McKune chassis because of 2 stock upper decks snapping after bad roll. I personally did not buy it for a performance upgrade but for a durability issue. I pointed out that that crappy plastic was going to be an issue right off after opening the box the first time. I think the Rabbit types were done for the same reason, to get rid of the brittle 3Racing plastic. Want me send one over?

I forgot the rabbit conversion types. Those are the F104 front end and FGX rear end. I didn't count them... Bad John.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #4342
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I would say within .2 seconds or less on a carpet surface on average with a better driver less. I did get the McKune chassis because of 2 stock upper decks snapping after bad roll. I personally did not buy it for a performance upgrade but for a durability issue. I pointed out that that crappy plastic was going to be an issue right off after opening the box the first time. I think the Rabbit types were done for the same reason, to get rid of the brittle 3Racing plastic. Want me send one over?

I forgot the rabbit conversion types. Those are the F104 front end and FGX rear end. I didn't count them... Bad John.
I agree. + or -0.2 It really is about driver skill. I posted these before but just to refresh here are some fast laps from our track.

f104 10.8
F104w 11.5
F109 11.2
F109 11.2
Fgx 11.2

Very close lap times and we have some great racing.

Durability was the reason I bought a rabbit. The front of the fgx is so fragile that it was frustrating. The rabbit was the first conversion followed by the f104gx and they both use the fgx rear with a f104 front. The newest conversion keeps the high nose that a lot of people like but it also keeps the stock arms. A weak point for the fgx. I believe upgraded front arms will be released soon.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:54 PM   #4343
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Hi,


I got into the hobby as a child and wanted to have a car to play that looks exactly like the cars on TV. It took me some time to talk my father in to buy me a F102 with the design of Michael Schumacherís car the B192 because heís my favorite race car driver. This was somewhere in 1993.
As I grow older I bought body kits for the car to keep it true to what Iíve seen on TV that time. And I was fine with the car as it was.


When the new F103 came out later it didnít draw my attention, because I donít needed the better performance the car offered. After a few years I gave up my hobby because my interests moved on to other stuff. This was some years ago.


But when the F104Pro was released I thought of the fun I had with my F102 and decided to purchase the new car with a body that suits my sense of what a F1car looks should look like. Even that it costs more than 200 EUR here in Europe. It is just nice to see a model of a real F1 car in action.


All the time there was only one option for me to go with a pan car style rear for F1 because there hasnít been a real alternative to my budget.
Now when the FGX came out with that small price I must have one because of the nice IRS and the scale look at that price.


Long story short: As long as the costs are kept down, the chassis is durable, simple and the whole car looks like a F1 I am fine with that. I donít need the overall performance approach that 4WD, Pan Cars, etc. have.


A manufacturer might come up with a design that will be closer to real F1 cars at a max. price of 120$ someday, I probably buy that too and let the other cars rest on the shelf as a reminder to what fun I had with them.


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Old 03-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #4344
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That 102 was my first f1 as well. Same body. I loved it. It was so much fun and looked so good racing around the track.

Great story.
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:31 PM   #4345
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As I and the site the original pictures came from have said, the TOP are development prototypes and not the production kits, and this complaining about a non existent kit that might never make production is getting silly. Pictures of the TOP look to be running F1 size wheels to me, certainly they are the same size as the wheels on my F1 and look the same size as the F104 in this picture.

Or are you just assuming they are using WorldGT size tyres because the Corally uses them?
Sorry Terry, but you need to check again... The left car has rear tyres way wider than the 104... that'll be WGT rims then. As you point out, if it's a proto, why go to the bother of making specific axles when you have Pan axles sitting on the shelf...

Anyway, this whole arguement would be moot... I've been converted round to the different arguements now, and in the series here in SH, everything runs together. The big difference is we have a spec rubber tyre... and that is the biggest leveler.
The 104's and FGX's it all fits fine, but on 103's etc, the width's are funky on the front and rear, plus you have ride-height restrictions.

I honestly detest foams, I've never enjoyed running them, and find rubber just much simpler... get rid of foam for F1, IMO At the very least, I like the BRCA / UF1 rules, and there seems to be some general consensous (190mm, rubber, 21.5t) which is great... for me that is the F1 class, and the direction it should head.
The wide, foam cars are a hang over from the past... by all means, keep running them to get people introduced to the class, but over time (and it has already happened in UF1) the conversion to that should be encouraged.

I buy the scale arguement, and doing things to defferentiate F1 from the other classes is, IMO, a good thing... stuff like no WGT tyres (do you see SC boys bitching about not running 8th rims?), suspension inside the body (they just look wrong otherwise!) and so on are good moves, as it keeps the class different and in it's own niche. It's F1, not WGT lite... if that annoys some people, so be it.

As for the IRS, personally, I don't care any more... I've had an FGX (with Rabbit conversion), and I was still faster with my F104. Enough of an argument for me! If it brings more people to the class, then thats a good thing
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:51 PM   #4346
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I have run rc4less foams on my WorldGT, they were pretty good and a bargain compared to the price of other manufacturers tyres. I am certainly very happy with them and several local club members run them.

I did look at their F1 tyres, but as I usually run 25-30 shore rears with 32-35 shore fronts and while they have soft enough rears I think all their fronts are too hard compared to what I normally use so haven't tried them.
Thanks for the help. I'm running Tamiya HBR soft rear and medium front right now, and the front just has way too much bite. It's so stuck that it literally rips the back tires loose in the corners. I think a harder tire may actually help me.
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:54 PM   #4347
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BTW, has anyone noticed the 1:1 scale cars are racing this weekend?
I'm really curious about this year: Has McLaren caught Red Bull, will Jenson's steady hand outshow Hamilton again, are the Ferarris really THAT bad, and is the Lotus as good as a lot of people hope (or is it just Kimi making it look good) ?
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:55 PM   #4348
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Just one observation reading back through the thread....

Isn't it great that we have all these opinions and discussions being banded around? Show's people care about the class and it's future... And that is a great thing!
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:48 PM   #4349
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Just one observation reading back through the thread....

Isn't it great that we have all these opinions and discussions being banded around? Show's people care about the class and it's future... And that is a great thing!
+1 if the class weren't gaining popularity and growing we wouldn't be talking about it so much.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:13 PM   #4350
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+1 if the class weren't gaining popularity and growing we wouldn't be talking about it so much.
Just try and find a WGT thread,haven`t seen one in a while.
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