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Old 03-13-2012, 10:11 AM   #4291
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I see a lot of talk and some complaining about all of the different chassis widths and suspensions and I honestly wonder why. We run them all together and they are all very close. Driver skill determines the race results. Here's some of our examples.

Best lap times at our track
F104 10.8
F109 11.2
F109 11.2
FGX 11.2
F104W 11.5

There are others but these 5 have the quickest times. Now where is the huge advantage that everyone is discussing?
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:29 AM   #4292
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Originally Posted by 6376vette View Post
I see a lot of talk and some complaining about all of the different chassis widths and suspensions and I honestly wonder why. We run them all together and they are all very close. Driver skill determines the race results. Here's some of our examples.

Best lap times at our track
F104 10.8
F109 11.2
F109 11.2
FGX 11.2
F104W 11.5

There are others but these 5 have the quickest times. Now where is the huge advantage that everyone is discussing?
BAN THE 104!!!!!


The FGX hasn't been out even 6 months yet. Some clubs and series allow them to race with the 104's and there hasn't been a clear advantage found. There is speculation here and there, but as for an all around clear advantage, no. If its found that the FGX is in another league then I am sure changes will be made. The 190mm was a blessing in disguise, bumping the F104 to 190mm really helped that car. I like it better than my FGX. Like Vette says, and like many others have been saying for YEARS, its not the car. A good driver is going to beat a lesser driver, no matter what he's in. We can all piss and moan about this car or that car, and many constantly do. Easier to blame the equipment than to own up and say someone is better than you.
Carpet Nationals this weekend. Have some really good F1 guys registered. The winner will be the best driver, it wont be the best car. At any rate, after Sunday, the FGX goes right back to being ROAR illegal.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #4293
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing the F201 revised to 2 wheel drive and brought back with a different front end on it. With the new 2012 body style in F1, that might be a good point of release for this year in RC for Tamiya.
Exactly! I wonder if that is the direction Tamiya will take their next f1 car due to the success or failure of the FGX. We shall see.

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Originally Posted by 6376vette View Post
I see a lot of talk and some complaining about all of the different chassis widths and suspensions and I honestly wonder why. We run them all together and they are all very close. Driver skill determines the race results.

There are others but these 5 have the quickest times. Now where is the huge advantage that everyone is discussing?
If your referring to me, I said up the page to allow 180-200mm chassis and let the racers sort it out. My preference is towards keeping them direct drive pan cars though.

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Originally Posted by texastc View Post
BAN THE 104!!!!!


The FGX hasn't been out even 6 months yet. Some clubs and series allow them to race with the 104's and there hasn't been a clear advantage found. There is speculation here and there, but as for an all around clear advantage, no. If its found that the FGX is in another league then I am sure changes will be made. The 190mm was a blessing in disguise, bumping the F104 to 190mm really helped that car. I like it better than my FGX. Like Vette says, and like many others have been saying for YEARS, its not the car. A good driver is going to beat a lesser driver, no matter what he's in. We can all piss and moan about this car or that car, and many constantly do. Easier to blame the equipment than to own up and say someone is better than you.
Carpet Nationals this weekend. Have some really good F1 guys registered. The winner will be the best driver, it wont be the best car. At any rate, after Sunday, the FGX goes right back to being ROAR illegal.
I can't find a link to the newest ROAR rule book, the only one on their site is for 2010. And why are they allowing the FGX if its technically illegal?

Note of interest: Here's the 2010 rules as per the ROAR website for 1/10 Electric Onroad Formula 1/IRL/CART:

Length - Maximum: 22.0" (558.8mm)
Width - Maximum: 8.4" (213.36mm)

8.10.6.5 Rear suspension and drive:
 Single, one-piece drive axle only
 No independent suspension allowed


I think we can all agree that it's the driver, not the car, no need to try and argue that point.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #4294
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Never tried, but I'm waiting for a tire company like Sweep to produce a tire like the TC tires. A rain tire would also be awesome, much like the hard to find Proline F1 tires.
The old Proline F1 tire was crap in the wet or dry...rubber was much too hard.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:29 AM   #4295
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And why are they allowing the FGX if its technically illegal?
It is a demonstration class only for this race event. There was much begging to have F1 racing at this event as it was not originally one of the classes listed. Because it is a demo and not really a sanctioned event the host track dictates the rules and the FGX sneaks in.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:19 PM   #4296
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My post wasn't directed at anyone. Just directed at the discussion in general. This seems to be a rotating discussion that we keep coming back to. Just race. Lets discuss something like how do you find the sweet spot between efficiency vs power on a brushless motor. This helps everyone a lot more then the ban this car this week because its just too red discussion.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:16 PM   #4297
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Default decline of f1

Hello all, when I made this comment I really meant that way back when we first started running f1 in the late 80's early 90's the corrally car was far superior to the tamiya's and did not look scale at all and with the current Top racing f1 it still holds true, the car just does not look scale in any way shape or form, the suspension is just of off a 1/12th scale car and the wheels and tires are not to any type of realistic scale. I don't have any objection to other companies entering the f1 game, but in my opinion they should stick to the appearance formula that tamiya has. As far as the attitude of just race, thats fine and dandy but when the out of scale performance only cars start to dominate the class will disapear like it did in the past. I don't understand why there needs to be a change in a class that seems to work fine the way it was designed to work, that is controlable speeds and realistic looks, that is what gets the spectators interested and posibly involved.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:23 PM   #4298
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As far as the fgx goes, I am fine with that car being legalized, the reason being is that it still looks the part. It looks scale and the difference in a few milimeters doesn't bother me that much, anything over 190 mm would bother me a bit because of the performance gain. If we are to keep the f1 class competitive yet fair there has to be some kind of rule, after all every other class has rules, if you were to show up at a touring car race with a 235 mm car do you think they would let you race with it, I think not.
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:07 PM   #4299
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The FGX is basically a touring car with an F1 body. Do we really want to be encouraging people to race something with many more moving parts than there needs to be. The more moving parts there are on a car, the more wear you get, the more it costs, and of course the faster it can go for a lap once people get the handling sorted out....

I think its really funny how people on here are not thinking about the future of F1, talking about how its about the same speed as the current crop of direct drive F1's so should be allowed to race. Imagine in 6 months or a year when everyone has bought even more hop up parts for it, and spent a lot more time testing set ups.

It will go exactly the same way as when the corally or other pro 10 type F1 cars arrived on the scene.

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Old 03-13-2012, 03:28 PM   #4300
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Originally Posted by mrod View Post
Hello all, when I made this comment I really meant that way back when we first started running f1 in the late 80's early 90's the corrally car was far superior to the tamiya's and did not look scale at all and with the current Top racing f1 it still holds true, the car just does not look scale in any way shape or form, the suspension is just of off a 1/12th scale car and the wheels and tires are not to any type of realistic scale. I don't have any objection to other companies entering the f1 game, but in my opinion they should stick to the appearance formula that tamiya has. As far as the attitude of just race, thats fine and dandy but when the out of scale performance only cars start to dominate the class will disapear like it did in the past. I don't understand why there needs to be a change in a class that seems to work fine the way it was designed to work, that is controlable speeds and realistic looks, that is what gets the spectators interested and posibly involved.
+1!!!!!
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:37 PM   #4301
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Originally Posted by ixlr8nz View Post
The FGX is basically a touring car with an F1 body. Do we really want to be encouraging people to race something with many more moving parts than there needs to be. The more moving parts there are on a car, the more wear you get, the more it costs, and of course the faster it can go for a lap once people get the handling sorted out....

I think its really funny how people on here are not thinking about the future of F1, talking about how its about the same speed as the current crop of direct drive F1's so should be allowed to race. Imagine in 6 months or a year when everyone has bought even more hop up parts for it, and spent a lot more time testing set ups.

It will go exactly the same way as when the corally or other pro 10 type F1 cars arrived on the scene.

Mike

Sorry Mike, but I do not agree with you!! The FGX IS a scale F1 car, and not a converted touring car as you suggest. And I personally think that it represents the true direction that F1 should go: "True scale" racing with F1 cars that look like the real thing even without the body! I don't believe that cars like the FGX are going to ruin F1; rather I think they will help make it even more popular. It is cars like the Corally or the Top that could potentially ruin F1. The idea of "just let them race" is wrong and only encourages those who just want to win at all costs, and who don't care about scale appearance to take over the whole F1 class and destroy it. Trust me, it WILL happen if cars like that are allowed!!
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:51 PM   #4302
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Originally Posted by mrod View Post
Hello all, when I made this comment I really meant that way back when we first started running f1 in the late 80's early 90's the corrally car was far superior to the tamiya's and did not look scale at all and with the current Top racing f1 it still holds true,
That's funny, because the first series of Corally F1 cars were actually reasonably to scale, at least as far as the suspension was concerned. They only strapped on the Pro10 front suspension somewhere this century; possibly as late as 2004. If I set my Corally (mk1) and F109 next to each other, there isn't a huge difference in looks. (The F109 wiring is still a mess; work in progress :P). It's conceivable to make the Tamiya rear end fit somehow. The tamiya rear pod is narrower, so perhaps a F103 axle with an F104 Diff, with F104 wheels? Front side is harder. although techincally it could be made to fit as well.

For those who are unfamiliar with them: Corally F1 mk1 with the black wings, 3Racing F109 with the white wings. Bodies and wings chosen for visibility on the track, not for resemblance of any livery.



Personally, I like the technology in the FGX. It will be very interesting to see which will win out, in the end power and battery will decide. More grip for the independent suspension, more flatout speed with the more efficient direct drive transmission.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:51 PM   #4303
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Originally Posted by Team Lotus View Post
Sorry Mike, but I do not agree with you!! The FGX IS a scale F1 car, and not a converted touring car as you suggest. And I personally think that it represents the true direction that F1 should go: "True scale" racing with F1 cars that look like the real thing even without the body! I don't believe that cars like the FGX are going to ruin F1; rather I think they will help make it even more popular. It is cars like the Corally or the Top that could potentially ruin F1. The idea of "just let them race" is wrong and only encourages those who just want to win at all costs, and who don't care about scale appearance to take over the whole F1 class and destroy it. Trust me, it WILL happen if cars like that are allowed!!
+1

if you think the fgx is a touring car then obviously you have never driven one and I guarantee you haven't tuned one. Two completely different worlds.

It already has started to help f1 popularity. There are two guys at our track that wouldn't be racing if it weren't for the fgx. I'm one of them. I can tell you that the car does not dominate the field like some have suggested. I'm not a great driver but I do ok. The same tguys that beat me in vta are the same ones who beat me in f1 and by the same margins. Is the car was dominate I would be beating them.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:55 PM   #4304
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They had a reasonably scale suspension but the 1/10 pan car tires are no where near scale for a F1. The front to rear width ratios and taller rim with a lower profile tire not only looked wrong but gave them an advantage over other F1 cars. Both the older Corally and the older HPI F1 had that problem.
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:56 PM   #4305
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FGX may be adding racers, but it still doesn't excuse the fact that they went to 190mm when everyone else was at 180mm. What disturbs me is that a racing series will ban 200mm (moving them to another class), yet make an exception to the 190mm to accommodate for ONE chassis.
Remember, this is just one championship in one country and has nothing to do with the racing rules anywhere else. As far as I know the rest of the world, and even other championships in the US, don't allow the FGX to race, it certainly isn't legal in the UK.

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Never tried, but I'm waiting for a tire company like Sweep to produce a tire like the TC tires. A rain tire would also be awesome, much like the hard to find Proline F1 tires.
We've already got wet tyres. Get a set of Cross or TRG Superion tyres, they work great in the wet, although they are only F103 size as TRG and Cross only make 200mm cars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvpKlD6CUnI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9HMutOu6IE
They even work in cold weather
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bDrD6FacAs
We find they only work well in the wet, they are so soft and sticky that in the dry they just pick up all the dirt from the track.


Tamiya tyre caps can also still be found, search for part number 53184. Should be able to fit on F104 tyres as well as F103s. They work better the wetter the track is, in standing water they will grip as well as normal tyres do in the dry.
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