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Old 02-23-2012, 09:47 AM   #4156
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
So you're saying the wide cars are faster ?
Wow, that is some news there
haha, quite!
Just raising the point, that even on spec rubbers, a wide car is faster, so if you want a series to use narrow's, gonna need a width limit!
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:59 AM   #4157
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
haha, quite!
Just raising the point, that even on spec rubbers, a wide car is faster, so if you want a series to use narrow's, gonna need a width limit!
I think the Racers are aware of this, & the Paraders don't care.

It is a conundrum.
With the F-103 and it's ilk, there were no such issues, as even a bone stock 103 would run the same pace as any fully kitted, blinged out F1.

Progress . . .

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Old 02-23-2012, 10:01 AM   #4158
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Originally Posted by F N CUDA View Post
But you're the one that changed the car to have different fronts and rears, right?
This is the start to our own demise,no?
Parts from this car to fit that car, aftermarket chassis so this car's parts fit that car and on and on.
So much for the kit car to go racing with.
Now it takes the Frankenstein car to be competitive as well as 2 full sets of tires to make one set you can use.
Oh well, guess it still costs money to go fast.

I wanna see what the magic 571 and 572 Pits will do for this FGX car.
Somebody get me some rims to fit these.
Not complaining. I bought the chassis conversion, built it , tuned it, and I race it. I didn't complain with the first set of tires that I bought that didn't work and I didn't complain when I spent $50++ on a set that does work. Just making a funny point. Sorry you seem to
have taken it wrong.

I have just as much if not more fun upgrading and tuning my cars vs racing them. If I wanted to keep it as cheap as possible I wouldn't have converted it in the first place. I love my rabbit and it is very competitive with all of the other chassis I have raced against. Again I love this chassis and I love putting in the time and effort to make it faster every week. I was simply going to try a new set of tires since the price was attractive. I was willing to be a test mule for $25. If it is going to be $50 I will wait for feedback before I make the investment in an unknown set of tires vs a set I know works on my car.

The challenge to me is personal. I don't care about winning everything I enter but it is my challenge to myself to make the car better and faster as well as pushing my ability to go faster. I build the cars as I go. I will push myself to get the most out of a car until I decide an upgrade is necessary to get to the "next level" Because it is a personal challenge I don't mind spending money on my toys. I'm not buying what everyone else has to try and keep up just buying what I want to improve myself and the car.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:17 AM   #4159
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
It doesn't cost much money to have fun. Some people just want to buy a kit car, build it, and run it. Will they be competitive? Probably not. At least not for long. The people that spend the most time, effort, and money into their cars and learning how to tune and drive them are to going to be the most competitive. It's going to cost money to have a shot at winning. If you just want to race and don't care if you come in 1st or last, money doesn't really matter all that much.
I like the way you think sir, glad to know there are people with your attitude in our area.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:19 AM   #4160
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Let me see if I have this straight:

F103 = 200mm
F104 = 180mm
F109 = 200mm
Fgx = 190mm
Hpi = 180mm

Is this correct? Why didn't 3 racing make their FGX 180mm, which is more to "scale" as someone mentioned earlier?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:20 AM   #4161
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Originally Posted by mkennedy View Post
cuda, sound like you both are in the same shoes, trying/ wanting to run 104 tires on the FGX i ran the 571's and didnt like them.
So you got the fronts on but what did you have on the rears?
Do you think the whole combo would work or do you agree with the idea that the 2 different chassis need different tires?

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Originally Posted by 6376vette View Post
Not complaining. I bought the chassis conversion, built it , tuned it, and I race it. I didn't complain with the first set of tires that I bought that didn't work and I didn't complain when I spent $50++ on a set that does work. Just making a funny point. Sorry you seem to
have taken it wrong.

I have just as much if not more fun upgrading and tuning my cars vs racing them. If I wanted to keep it as cheap as possible I wouldn't have converted it in the first place. I love my rabbit and it is very competitive with all of the other chassis I have raced against. Again I love this chassis and I love putting in the time and effort to make it faster every week. I was simply going to try a new set of tires since the price was attractive. I was willing to be a test mule for $25. If it is going to be $50 I will wait for feedback before I make the investment in an unknown set of tires vs a set I know works on my car.

The challenge to me is personal. I don't care about winning everything I enter but it is my challenge to myself to make the car better and faster as well as pushing my ability to go faster. I build the cars as I go. I will push myself to get the most out of a car until I decide an upgrade is necessary to get to the "next level" Because it is a personal challenge I don't mind spending money on my toys. I'm not buying what everyone else has to try and keep up just buying what I want to improve myself and the car.
I totally get this, I guess I took it as complaining that now you need 2 different types of wheels/tires to fit a merged chassis combo and didn't get that so I opened my fat mouth.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:26 AM   #4162
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
haha, quite!
Just raising the point, that even on spec rubbers, a wide car is faster, so if you want a series to use narrow's, gonna need a width limit!
How wide were the rear tires? Fatties like the 103 or did they just have to widen the rear and run 104 type meats?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:40 AM   #4163
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
I just switched over to the 571/572 combo on my 104, and man what a difference.
Cmon man! What took you so long?
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Originally Posted by J-PaP View Post
The 571/572 combo has been working fairly well. It was all I had ever used apart from type b tamiya foams so I thought that is as much as you can get out of traction. However last night I switched to 571/575. The car was so easy and fast to drive. Suddenly consistent laps were easy. In fact I was 0.8s faster in a single lap.
What surface are you running on that you found the improvement on?
Did you get more grip in the rear or did it free it up a bit?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:41 AM   #4164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiuHaWong View Post
Let me see if I have this straight:

F103 = 200mm
F104 = 180mm
F109 = 200mm
Fgx = 190mm
Hpi = 180mm

Is this correct?
You are correct on the widths. As far as overall scale for the whole car, not sure.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:10 PM   #4165
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Originally Posted by JiuHaWong View Post
Let me see if I have this straight:

F103 = 200mm
F104 = 180mm
F109 = 200mm
Fgx = 190mm
Hpi = 180mm

Is this correct? Why didn't 3 racing make their FGX 180mm, which is more to "scale" as someone mentioned earlier?
I'm still amused by the issue of "Not true to scale".
Touring cars - I did an article on this many moons ago on the width of cars when the narrow touring cars took over from the wide touring cars (anyone here remember when Touring cars were Buggy's with wide Touring shells on?), and that even the narrow Tamiya cars at 180mm was even too wide to be scale.
If I recall correctly, the cars in the full sized British Touring Cars were something like:
Volve 850 - 1770mm
Audi A4 Quattro - 1800mm (the widest, and had to be narrowed)
Nissan Primera - 1680mm
Yet when the narrow Touring cars came a National product (after the release of the Yokomo YR4 and the Predator), this was set at 190mm, 10mm wider than many of the Tamiya cars that started the narrow scale.

Now depending of which era of F1 you look at determings the so called correct scale. Early Tamiya cars (F101/F102/F103) were based on the then scale of 2000mm, a scale which has remained the norm in Europe, while the later scale of 1800mm based models appear only to be pushed by the Tamiya series running in America.
Remember the Senna/Mansell battles? they were with the 2000mm cars.

I'm not going to say who is right and/or what scale is right, but it does look like those racing in America prefer the 180mm LATE model F1 cars and those in Europe prefer to run the older scale cars (cars from the loft or cheap imports) at 200mm (actually 208mm on most at rear).

F104 kits here cost more than Touring car kits, and are 3-4 times more than a cost of a new 3racing F109.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:22 PM   #4166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiuHaWong View Post
Let me see if I have this straight:

F103 = 200mm
F104 = 180mm
F109 = 200mm
Fgx = 190mm
Hpi = 180mm

Is this correct? Why didn't 3 racing make their FGX 180mm, which is more to "scale" as someone mentioned earlier?
3 racing went with 190mm because the whole rear end and gearbox is from the front end of their fwd touring car. Which is also 190mm.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:25 PM   #4167
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The arms are different...they could have shortened the arms by 5mm on both sides.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #4168
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Originally Posted by Stregone View Post
3 racing went with 190mm because the whole rear end and gearbox is from the front end of their fwd touring car. Which is also 190mm.
Not completely. The gear diff is the same but the suspension arms are different. I imagine 190 was chosen to give the suspension room to move while still trying to stay thin.the rear suspension is very tight even at 190 mm. At 180 mm it would be too tight to try an adjust.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:44 PM   #4169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiMo View Post
I'm still amused by the issue of "Not true to scale".
Touring cars - I did an article on this many moons ago on the width of cars when the narrow touring cars took over from the wide touring cars (anyone here remember when Touring cars were Buggy's with wide Touring shells on?)
You mean a vehicle like the old RC10 DS; which was the RC10 chassis with smaller wheels and out of scale bodies?


Quote:
and that even the narrow Tamiya cars at 180mm was even too wide to be scale.
If I recall correctly, the cars in the full sized British Touring Cars were something like:
Volve 850 - 1770mm
Audi A4 Quattro - 1800mm (the widest, and had to be narrowed)
Nissan Primera - 1680mm
Yet when the narrow Touring cars came a National product (after the release of the Yokomo YR4 and the Predator), this was set at 190mm, 10mm wider than many of the Tamiya cars that started the narrow scale.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but 190mm was standard since the Ta01. The original HPI RS4 was the only car that was able to do either 190 or 200. I see you point though, it wasn't true to scale like it should have been.

Quote:
Now depending of which era of F1 you look at determings the so called correct scale. Early Tamiya cars (F101/F102/F103) were based on the then scale of 2000mm, a scale which has remained the norm in Europe, while the later scale of 1800mm based models appear only to be pushed by the Tamiya series running in America.
Remember the Senna/Mansell battles? they were with the 2000mm cars.

I'm not going to say who is right and/or what scale is right, but it does look like those racing in America prefer the 180mm LATE model F1 cars and those in Europe prefer to run the older scale cars (cars from the loft or cheap imports) at 200mm (actually 208mm on most at rear).

F104 kits here cost more than Touring car kits, and are 3-4 times more than a cost of a new 3racing F109.
So I'm beginning to wonder: If a national set of rules (or even a international set) were to allow up to 200mm, would that mean that everyone would flock to 200mm for performance?
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:51 PM   #4170
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
The arms are different...they could have shortened the arms by 5mm on both sides.
100% agree. Heck I could do it right now if I wanted to.
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