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Old 11-22-2011, 09:33 PM   #3331
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Great post Lotus, I was racing in a F1 class sometime time ago. The hotshots wanted more speed so then everyone started putting 10.5's in them. Well it totally ruined the class for quite a few people that loved the speed of silver can. I ended up selling my car because I didn't want to go the speed route. If I wanted speed I would have raced 12 scale.

I had a great time running F1 and since then I can't get into touring car.





[QUOTE=Team Lotus;9876789]I personally could care less if F1 is slower than 1/12 or WGT or whatever. F1 is it's own unique class; and it's main appeal has always been and should continue to be, SCALE REALISM. It is not to be compared with any other class of car.

I would hate to see those who are obsessed with all-out performance hijack the F1 class and ruin it the way 1/10 touring has been ruined. We already have those who promote the "shaved to the rim" foam tires on an F1 car, as well as "cheater" cars like the current Corally F1 car, which is nothing more than a pan car with an F1 body on it. Maybe those who are obsessed with that sort of thing out to start their own class and leave mainstream F1 alone.
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Old 11-24-2011, 10:31 PM   #3332
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Hi if you are just playing and struggling for grip, I found some very sticky foam material. Wrapped it around small foam tires (like capping). Grip was so good, I could'nt make my F104 spin out no matter how hard I tried.



After 45 minutes, almost zero wear.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:53 AM   #3333
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Hi if you are just playing and struggling for grip, I found some very sticky foam material. Wrapped it around small foam tires (like capping). Grip was so good, I could'nt make my F104 spin out no matter how hard I tried.



After 45 minutes, almost zero wear.

I don't think this is the way forward in terms of foams haha, but I do believe we need to hammer on at the tire companies to make a compound that grips like crazy for the F104 only, so it even's out it's performance against the 200mm cars.

I think the reason that F1 hasn't taken off as much as it could have is because of the exclusion of the 200mm guys.

TRG 109, TRG 111, 3 Racing F109, F104W, F103 and many more.

How many guys have got an old F103 at home they'd love to race against someone?
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:44 AM   #3334
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I don't think this is the way forward in terms of foams haha, but I do believe we need to hammer on at the tire companies to make a compound that grips like crazy for the F104 only, so it even's out it's performance against the 200mm cars.

I think the reason that F1 hasn't taken off as much as it could have is because of the exclusion of the 200mm guys.

TRG 109, TRG 111, 3 Racing F109, F104W, F103 and many more.

How many guys have got an old F103 at home they'd love to race against someone?
This is why there should be 2 classes, a vintage (200mm or less) and 180mm max modern class. This is how we separate our 1/10th scale hydros (not width but era/style).
Since there really is 2 different widths for the real F1's which changed around '97-98 time frame and the handling is different between the 2 chassis.
Rubber vs foam, I like the idea of rubber as its more scale and no roll out issues. But if a foam can have grip and last like rubber, then that should be pursued. Its progress forward.
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:18 AM   #3335
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If we still wanna race 200mm cars on foam or rubber we just need to get enough to show up, no one will turn away a full heat of cars. Usually 4 or 5.
Gotta be the same thing, all rubber or all foam, just talk to the guys and bring em out.
It's pretty obvious that a lot of places don't want to mix em.
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Old 11-25-2011, 12:55 PM   #3336
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TonyK, I'm glad that you "get it". I am in total agreement with your situation.

To all the other F1 fans out there, I suggest two different class of F1; one would be Scale F1 where the cars would run to the 180-190 maximum width with current style F1 bodies with rubber tires only and either silver can or 21.5 brushless.

The second class of F1 could be called Performance F1 which would allow 200mm wide cars, and maybe even that Corally "so-called F1 car" ( it was obviously built for just such a class, and was probably never intended for mainstream scale F1 racing) you could use your "shaved foams" if you like and 10.5 brushless if that's what turns you on.

That way everyone who likes F1 racing should have a class that appeals to them. Obviously, I would race in the Scale F1 class!
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:19 PM   #3337
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That is all well and good...so long as you can get enough people for both which at this stage is going to be difficult for most clubs.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:02 PM   #3338
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That is all well and good...so long as you can get enough people for both which at this stage is going to be difficult for most clubs.
Exactly, so the 200mm guys get pushed out in favour of 180mm..

There needs to be a way to match performance of the two chassis' so they can run together..
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:18 PM   #3339
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James, you may wish to "flame" me for this, but I'm sorry, F1 should be first and foremost about scale realism! So if that means that the 200mm guys are "pushed out" as you say, then so be it! From reading your posts, I gather that you are in favor of "loosening up" the F1 rules to allow for the all-out performance enthusiasts to have what they want with 13.5 or 10.5 brushless and shaved foam tires and larger than scale wings, etc, etc. You don't like being restricted by rules that favor scale realism over all-out performance. Might I suggest 1/12 pan car; it fits all of your criteria.

I have seen first hand the damage that is done to any class of rc car, when the performance obsessed have their way, they drive up costs and overall complexity of the racing so much that they kill the class. This has been said over and over again across the USA as the main reason why on-road rc racing is losing out to off-road. I would hate to see that happen to F1.

Ask yourself why you were drawn to F1 racing in the first place; if you are like the vast majority, it was because of the cool scale realistic looks of the cars. So then, why mess with that?
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:34 PM   #3340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Lotus View Post
James, you may wish to "flame" me for this, but I'm sorry, F1 should be first and foremost about scale realism! So if that means that the 200mm guys are "pushed out" as you say, then so be it! From reading your posts, I gather that you are in favor of "loosening up" the F1 rules to allow for the all-out performance enthusiasts to have what they want with 13.5 or 10.5 brushless and shaved foam tires and larger than scale wings, etc, etc. You don't like being restricted by rules that favor scale realism over all-out performance. Might I suggest 1/12 pan car; it fits all of your criteria.

I have seen first hand the damage that is done to any class of rc car, when the performance obsessed have their way, they drive up costs and overall complexity of the racing so much that they kill the class. This has been said over and over again across the USA as the main reason why on-road rc racing is losing out to off-road. I would hate to see that happen to F1.

Ask yourself why you were drawn to F1 racing in the first place; if you are like the vast majority, it was because of the cool scale realistic looks of the cars. So then, why mess with that?
I understand what you want to say about scale,but a F103 is cheaper and Faster than all of the 180mm cars, so going to 180mm is more expensive than staying with the 200mm cars that are cheaper and faster. Even switching to cars as cheap as the new 3Racing car has a higher running cost.
So going to 180mm is doing what you are complaining about,driving up cost.
Even the "T" bar for the F104 is twice the price as the "T" bar for the F103.
Plus the 200mm cars are easier to drive than the 180mm cars. SO they are better for beginers. Cheaper,faster,lower running cost,easier to work on.
And you cant say F103s dont look scale,just older style cars,but still scale.Its still F1.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:51 PM   #3341
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Actually that only applies if you are mixing F103's and F104's together in one class; then it may cost more to make the 180mm F104 as fast as the 200mm F103. If you run only the 180-190mm cars together then you should have no problem with cost so long as you keep the rules tight enough. Some parts such as t-bars may be a little more expensive, but it's really not going to be prohibitive.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:52 PM   #3342
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Lotus - no reason to turn every f1 thread into a 180 vs 200mm thread.

Not sure why this is debated so much on the Internet. Do you really think you are going to convince a group of guys you don't race with how they should run their races? Let others run what they want. No need to beat a dead horse every few days in every f1 thread.

That being said, when I organized the local f1 class we decided on 180mm, 21.5 class only. But if enough 200mm cars show up guess what? The classes that get run at any track are decided by the guys who show up with the cars. Not by ROAR, or any other group of people.
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Old 11-25-2011, 06:12 PM   #3343
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Tamiya's new models are F104W
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Old 11-25-2011, 06:45 PM   #3344
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We run them all together. F103, F109, F104, F104W, and now FGX's. One week the F103 will win, the next the F104, then the FGX, one day my F109 might . IF we ran on foams, it would be different. The F103 would kills us all and then eat the parts. Its is still probably the best car out there on our track, but it also has the best driver at our track. But its not that big of a gap with the rubber tires. In fact, our F103 pilot just got an FGX, and is letting someone else drive the F103. Guess what? That leveled the playing field even more. The best driver wins. I like the wider cars better, because I like the older style bodies. That's just me, its still scale, but yeah it looks a little odd with 1990 style cars running with 2009 style cars. But so what. I just got an FGX, I put it on the track today, first time, box stock. It is awesome. Its not as fast as my F109 because of the gearing, but it will be. The other FGX is as fast as the F103, 104, 109 etc. They look the same, the FGX handles a bit different, but the end result is pretty close to the same. Fun. F(un)One. The most fun class I race. And we are going to keep it that way. Because the second it starts getting like TC or 1/12, its not going to be as appealing. And the wheels will fall right off.
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:26 PM   #3345
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Odin, for me the reason that this is debated so much on the various F1 threads is because I believe that representatives of the various F1 rc manufacturers do read these forums(maybe I'm nieave) and that gives us a chance to let them know what we are looking for with regards to future F1 cars that they may offer.

So far, from what I've read; the majority seem to prefer the scale approach over the all-out performance approach. I notice that many clubs across the country mix the various width cars to have enough for a strong F1 class; that's fine. The majority also appear to favor the rubber tires over the foams as they are more real looking and they don't have rollout issues or tire chunking with the rubber tires.

It has been commented by some that the major problem F1 has is that not all the manufacturers are on the same page with regards to what their respective F1 designs are. We have 180mm, 200mm, 190mm, solid axle, independent suspension, "psuedo" F1 cars like the Corally, etc, etc. It would be great if they all were heading in the same direction. There should also be a standard wheel/tire that fits ALL F1 cars, instead of some having proprietary wheels/tires for their car only. Also, the wings and bodies should be interchangeable as well.

For me the "ultimate" F1 rc car would have independent suspension at all four corners with tiny inboard shocks front and rear like the real cars. It would also be 2wd just like real F1. The maximum width would be 190mm; a good middle ground between 180 and 200mm. It would use Tamiya wheels and be able to use Tamiya bodies and wings as well as HPI and 3 Racing, etc.
The 3 Racing FGX is somewhat close, but lacks in some key areas of what I described.

I do hope the F1 rc manufacturers are indeed reading this thread.
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