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Old 10-18-2011, 03:01 PM   #3091
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I think with rubber tires there is no difference between an F103 and F104. Also looks more realistic than trued down F1 foam tires.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:09 PM   #3092
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That also depends if your running them both in the wide configuration or not.
Did run them back to back on foam and there isn't much difference besides the weight.
The weight will ad in some way of the performance.
I did ditch some of the heavy alloy parts and now it is almost the same weight and drives the same with the same tire combo.

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I think with rubber tires there is no difference between an F103 and F104. Also looks more realistic than trued down F1 foam tires.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:24 PM   #3093
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I have run both cars on foam at the same TCS event, 2 different classes. The 103 is .3-.4 a lap faster. The wide car just has way more corner speed.

As far as the pan car tires, the rim diameter is the #1 advantage. The overall size of wheel and foam is not the problem, but a huge rim and super low profile tire is a big advantage. The width may actually hurt the performance by making the car too stuck.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #3094
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There is a solution to the bigger rim issue: require the pan car tires to run a minimum tire diameter(63mm), and true the tamiya tires down to somewhat equal the same foam wall size, and specify a pre-determined minimum rollout that everybody needs to have... Now the scale look might be somewhat affected, but participation is more important..
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:17 PM   #3095
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So if I cut my pan car rims and tires to spec, they will let me race ? Or is it that the chassis brand is banned ? I only see 3racing and tamiya competing. No other brand,even if you come up with your own. Competition on an even basis or tamiya basis ? I here that even the old wide tamiya f103 is sometimes banned. It's like a TC class with trf417's only, no other brand, not even the trf414's that used to be legal by the way. In other words, keep buying our newest cars or else you won't be allowed to participate! That's what is discouraging newcomers......
It's nothing to do with Tamiya, Tamiya only create rules for their own TCS class. Not surprisingly Tamiya in its own race series promotes the only kits it currently has in mass production, why on earth should they allow other cars in their own series. If any club wants to create a Tamiya only class then that's the decision of the club, and is a much more sensible decision than allowing Corallys and other pan car conversions.

Every other series such as UF1, F1RC or any national series couldn't care less about Tamiya. For example here in the UK the most popular class is 200mm with the F109 easily the most popular chassis, with the 180mm struggling.

If you throw away any race series rules to allow the Corally in its standard setup then we just go back to the 90s, where if you wanted to race F1 then you had to buy the original Corally F1 to be competitive. Today the appeal of F1s is the scale look, if you want to run pan car tyres then go run WorldGT instead.

If you really want to run a Corally then it depends entirely what rules your local club runs to, not what rules Tamiya, HPI, UF1 or F1RC run to. If 200mm wide cars are allowed then you just have to modify it to fit the 38mm diameter F1 wheels. It's easy to do, just use the HPI F10 rear ball diff for foams.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:39 PM   #3096
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Terry, 3racing just release their 190mm F1 FGX that's even more representative of real F1 cars. Should we stop racing F104's & F109's now, and switch to 190mm cars, or just welcome them to the F1 club ????
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:10 PM   #3097
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The biggest problem with Pro 10 type F1 cars is the wheels. To have the same external diameter as the proper F1 cars, your wheels must be trued right down. This doesn't look realistic and would probably have a performance advantage (its definetly true my F103 runs better with really small diameter front tyres).

We allow these pro 10 cars to race, but I could see them being outlawed eventually as they are not really in the spirit of the class.

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Old 10-18-2011, 09:13 PM   #3098
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Exactly! I wish these "Pro 10 " type F1 cars didn't exist; they are NOT in the spirit of the class and are raced by those who don't care about scale appearance, but prefer to force their agenda of "all-out performance" F1 racing which ruins it for everyone else, and turns F1 into yet another boring pan car class, the only difference being the cars have a psuedo F1 body.

F1 needs to be about "pure scale" racing, similar in concept to the extremely popular Vintage Trans Am touring car series concept where scale appearance is more important than all-out performance.

If Corally and other manufacturers like them want to participate in F1 rc racing they need to drop their "Pro 10" style cheater car and build a proper scale F1 car like the new 3Racing FGX.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:24 PM   #3099
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:46 PM   #3100
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I have some hub adapters to run Pro10 wheels on my F104Pro. Haven't run them yet. The only reason I want to run them is cause the other class I run is Pro10, so it would be heaps easier running the 1 type of wheel and I can swap and change when i need to.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:24 PM   #3101
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
The problem is about more than just the overall width. The tires are wider than F1 tires, the rim is taller so the tire has less sidewall, and there are a lot more compounds out there to choose from than F1 tires. All of those give cars like the Corally a significant advantage over cars running a typical F1 style rim and tire.
Tamiya also made bigger wheels for the F103 that they used on the F103L. We allow these wheels and some people run them,but they are not any faster than the F103 size wheels. I can actully be faster with F103 size tires and wheels because it gets the ride height lower than using Pan car size tres and wheels. But the cars start to look a little strange with such small tires.
There are lots of ideas about rules but if one guy really likes F1 then he is going to practice more with his F1 and he will be better than the guy that just does it is sometimes. The learning curve is different for pan type cars.
There are lots of different tire compounds for F103 wheels the same as pan cars. But you really only need a few. There are lots of choices but for one track there is usally only a few tires that work,so the whole tire wars idea just doesnt really work out unless you go to many different circuits that are very different. Then of course you need alot of different compunds.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:35 PM   #3102
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The width of the F103L rim was the same as the F103 so the performance difference isn't as much as a pro 10 wheel to a F103. As for the tire compounds...I haven't seen pink, purple, lilac, white, and such compounds for the F103 wheel in many many years. If they are still out there great! let me know where please...I want some!
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:58 PM   #3103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
There is a solution to the bigger rim issue: require the pan car tires to run a minimum tire diameter(63mm), and true the tamiya tires down to somewhat equal the same foam wall size, and specify a pre-determined minimum rollout that everybody needs to have... Now the scale look might be somewhat affected, but participation is more important..
.
If you true an F103/F104/F109 tire to the foam thickness of a pan car tire, it would be useless. The key would be cars with the same rim and tire dimensions and then limit the minimum diameter for front and rear foams.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:00 PM   #3104
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
A lot of people may not like it but Tamiya IS the standard for F1. Every time F1 has made any kind of a come back it has been because Tamiya came out with a new F1 car or reworked and re-released an existing one. If the other manufacturers would take their lead from Tamiya when they do get F1 going again we wouldn't have this problem.
Other companies have stepped up so we really dont need Tamiya anymore,before the F103RM came out there were lots of people running F1 allready. But Tamiya makes the best looking bodies.
HPI really should have sold the Reanult and the Williams bodies in America. If they did everybody would be talking about HPI for F1 and not Tamiya in America.
HPI would be the standard in America,it so sad that they havent put more behing the F10. Chassis isnt that bad,just the body is a lot harder to make look good. I love the helmet HPI makes and its in all of my currnet F1 bodies.
Compaines need to understand that if they are going to sell and F1 car it has to look good. SO they need to make the bodies,wings and wheels.
3Racing understands this,but other companies dont get it.
Corally is just a pan car with the old HPI body and recycled wings from Kyosho/Cross.Not much effort there to make a F1 car. If they went the extra mile and made a real F1 cars thier name would not be a bad word in F1.
Thank fully Searpent has seemed to given up on the pan car chassis idea. Maybe they will do something more scale. I can only pray.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:06 PM   #3105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
I have run both cars on foam at the same TCS event, 2 different classes. The 103 is .3-.4 a lap faster. The wide car just has way more corner speed.

As far as the pan car tires, the rim diameter is the #1 advantage. The overall size of wheel and foam is not the problem, but a huge rim and super low profile tire is a big advantage. The width may actually hurt the performance by making the car too stuck.
Im am intersted what chassis you were runing. Maybe the F103 and the Tamiya F104?
The Tamiya F104 has the rear pivot screw in the wrong place. Change the position and you will see a very big change in the car. Not TCS legal but its not just the tires on the F104 that makes it handle the way.
There are many convesion kits that do this, but just moveing the screw foward a half an inch really changes the car.
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