The future of 1/12 scale is to be explored, experiment, and discussed here.
As you all know that lipo is here to stay. Other scale of electric racing now can enjoy the benefit of lipo except 1/12 scale. Over here, I want to show people what I did with 1/12 scale car with a 2-cell lipo battery pack.
Whatís going to be for 1/12 scale with lipo, will it be using single cell or 2-cell for racing? Well, there is a thread discussing using single cell for 1/12 scale on RC Tech, you can read it here:
SMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell Lipo
However, let me be upfront about it, Iím in favor of the 1/12 with a 2-cell lipo. Iíll explain to you why I think a 2-cell racing package is better than a single cell racing package. Iíll show you what you need and how to do about it. You can post you opinion here even youíre for single cells, but just be more on 2 cells. I wish all the 1/12 scale racer have an open mind about all the discussion here, whether youíre for single cell or 2 cells, and that we donít rush ROAR into making any decision until more options are tried by more people. I suggest that a track that race 1/12 allow both type to be run together, only then we can see which type is a better way to run the 1/12 scale.
Now, let me reveal what do I have in mind, something that I have played around with, given a lot of though, and invested some time, money and effort to come to this conclusion that this will be the ultimate class for on road racing. Here is what I use: one 1/12 scale car, small capacity lipo, about 1550mah in the very beginning, but now Iíve found a perfect sized 2400 mah pack, and esc and brush less motor for 1/18, like the one made by MOMBA. Go ahead, laugh about it, make fun of it, but Iíll change you mind if you stick around,
The whole thing is about 20 oz ready to run, this may make some of you think:ď Itís outrageousĒ. This thing has 7.2 volt of power, and thatís double outrageous. Well this thing uses tiny motor that generate a lot less power than a 540size motor. Some of you may start to doubt that will this ever be accepted by ROAR and IFMA, itís too much different than the current rules that we use now. But, you see, the rules will have to be changed a couple of years down the road, and whether itís a change to a minimum of, say 25 oz, or to a minimum of 21 oz., Itís a change, one way or the other. While we are at it, we might as well, Once for all, make the necessary change to make the 1/12 the best it can, if that means we also need to change the motor, so be it. Who puts a gun at our head and demand that we have to run this class with a certain size of motor, certain capacity of battery, or even at a certain weight that a 1/12 has to be? The answers are no, no and no! If you prepare a car, especially those who have a spare car sitting on shelf, and do what I did, youíll agree with me that this is the way to go for 1/12. If enough of you do that, and have ROAR looked at it. The rules may be changed to such, who knows, right? But before that, we need to put this out there so more people can see it, try it and get excited about it.
Let us try it, let people race with different package even that maybe one package seems (much) faster than the other, letís allow them to run together along with conventional legal racing package and see which one is the best all around. Technology is here already, letís make the right choice and benefit the most out of it. Of course it takes fellow racers who still use conventional racing gear to tolerate, to accept, and not to be upset and complaining the lose to someone who uses the ďillegalĒ stuff. I can see them, the ďillegalĒ stuff, not being allowed in a trophy race, but letís encourage them on a regular club race.
Why do we have to let this happen? You might ask. Well, if we donít, we are going to see the death, or near death, of 1/12 scale, based on what I see in my local area, Long Island, NY. It was just three years ago, we had more than thirty people race 1/12 scale every week, and the number were growing, but now, we usually have only 5~7 people racing it. And I know the reason. A lot of people donít race 1/12 now because they, and Iím one of them, donít want to buy Ni-MH ever again after using and knowing the benefit the lipo brings. So, if your are a die hard 1/12 scale racer, like I am, thatís why Iíve spent more than a week to prepare this article, and care about the future of 1/12scale racing. Do you want to see the class dwindled further? And itís not going to get back up anytime soon, because it is not worth the money, $50.00 a pack of 4 cells x 4 = $200.00 battery alone, for 3 month of racing, to get into a class where there is no good competition. And three month is what NiMH usually good for in high level of racing. Almost all of the A-main driver in 1/12 scale in my local track is no longer racing 1/12 scale for now. So, IMO, 1/12 scale racing wonít be meaningful much for the next few years, even for the regional event.
Without a doubt, lipo and brushless bring many ex-rc racer back to racing (touring) again. It will do the same magic for 1/12 scale too. But which way should we go about it? I personally think a 2cells is the way to go? Here are why:
1) Itís fast.
2) Itís simpler.
3) Itís cheaper!
ITíS FAST! And it can go much faster, believe me!
Well, both set up are capable of running slow, or slower than, like stock pace. And both set up are capable of fast pace also, itís all depend on motor and gear selection. But a 2cell set up like mine can easily going faster than fast. For now, I donít want to scare you how fast can this thing go. I just want you to know, from my testing, this set up can go fast with ease when driving, another word, the car is easily under control even when driving fast. It can also go much faster if you want it to. That we can talk about much later on.
Itís like plug and play. You hook up your electronic like you would with any other electric chassis. Plug you steering servo and esc into your receiver, and thatís it. But not so with single cell set up. With single cell you have to have a receiver pack to begin with, and during the day you may need to charge them more then once or twice.
From what I heard, there is no punch whatsoever with 13.5T, Itís almost full throttle all the way. Why so? May it be that the battery does not provide enough voltage? With a hotter motor, the voltage will drop even more under heavy acceleration. Another electronic device may be needed to boost up the voltage. Thatís been said/mentioned in the ďSMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell LipoĒ thread. If they ever make such a, ďvoltage boosterĒ or Ēstep Ėup circuitĒ, then we may have to deal with another problem this new product brings. Imagine Novak makes one that convert 3.7V to 4.8V. Two month later, other company comes out with one that claim convert the voltage to claimed 4.8V but hide their actual convert to 5.2V, and lead or mislead, however you want to define, consumer to think they have a better product and make its user go faster. Or three month later, Teken comes out with one that indeed convert 3.7V to 4.8V but claims lower internal resistant. Do you or do you not put the Novak made on the e-Bay and buy the Tekin made? And what will stop Lrp to make another one that claims an even lower internal resistant than Tekinís 5 month later? Do we really need to go down this road?
A single cell made by SMC is around $65.00, the battery that I use is around $25.00, Of course, once if itís determined and become race legal it then may be 15~20 dollars more to have them made hard case. But in the end, itís still going to be more likely cheaper than the SMC single cell. The motor is cheaper. The 540size motor is around $75 and up. The motors that I have tried most are all around $15.00~$18.00. The Momba motor for 1/18 car is around $50.00. The esc is cheaper. Better esc that majority racers use is more than likely to be $150.00 and up. The esc that I use for this project is $50.00. Itís cheaper to begin with.
With everything else being the same, chassis, tire, servo, receiver and body, my 2-cell set up costs me a another total of less than $100.00 to get it going, $25 for the battery, $50.00 for the esc, and $20.00 for the motor. And it will costs $310.00 for a single cell set up to get it running, and that price tag does not include the maybe needed voltage booster. That is $65.00 for the battery, $75.00 for the motor, $150.00 for the esc, $20.00 for the receiver pack, and may be another $50.00~$80.00, for the voltage booster if they ever make one. The $50.00~$80.00 is just a number I throw out, anything less than that will give manufacture no incentive to make one, anything more expensive will prove we are stupid to go about this route.
Itís also cheaper to keep it running. Being only 20oz.in weight, the tires will last at least twice as long. And when you hit something, being much lighter, thatís less damage done to your chassis and your body. If you race once a week, in less than three month, my estimation, racing with this set up, just the savings from the tires usage and body probably be more than enough to cover you the total cost to put this set up together. And it will continue to save more money down the road.
As if I still havenít convinced you yet, let me repeat: ďJust the savings from the tires usage and body probably be more than enough to cover you the total cost to put this set up together.Ē Or am I talking to a piece of wood?
Just imagine how easy and how much money this could save for the future generation to come? How attractive this class will be for the new comer? Just being that much cheaper is good enough to make such a change, wonít you agree?
Historically, ROAR made a lot of decisions based on the fact a decision is made so because it will save racer money. And historically there is not a change ROAR made can save racer money as much as this change can. What says you, ROAR?
I hope that Iíve illustrated how much sense Iíve made. I hope you all see the big picture. But I wonít be so arrogantly say Iím such a genius and absolutely right about it, and demand such a change right away. I only wish ROAR will take a leadership position and announce some type ďTemporary classĒ or ďTransitional classĒ for 1/12 scale for the next year or two, and let all type of combination of lipo and brush-less motor to race each other and see what will stand out. Such an announcement will encourage people to go ahead and experiment new ideas and new things so we have more choice to choose from, and then can make the right decision for us and for the next generation to come.
For you to take more than a few minutes to read up to this point means you somewhat care about 1/12 scale racing. So I urge you to try it, be it a single cell set up or my set up or both, just remember, my set up is very inexpensive and readily available. Think about the whole scenario that Iíve just presented to you and talk about it with your racing pals. Or better yet, you try one set up while your racing pal try the other and do the comparison. Donít just stand there on the sideline and do nothing. If you choose to do nothing that means youíre waiting for somebody to make decision for you. But who knows if this somebody is really smarter than you are. So, do you really want some body, who may not be smarter than you are, decide whatís good for you? And if the decision turned out to be no good for you and you did not have a say in it. That would be sad, donít you agree?
The following is from post #78, because I didn't have time to put verything together in the beginning. I decide to add them here because when people first read a thread that's new to them,and if the thread gets kind of long, they tend to read the first page and then skip to current page, then, they will miss these informations. Also, in this editing section, I can not add any pictures. Please go to post#78 for some pictures. So, here we go:
These are things I used to set up my car, where to get what, and how to put them together.
Motor and motor mount:
In the attached pictures, you will see the parts you need to mount the Momba motor on the motor mount of a 1/12 scale.
You will need:
2 3mm x 12mm screw
2 2.5mm x 4mm screw
4 split washers
2 3mm nuts
1 aluminum plate
1 1/8Ē plastic tube, some antena tube will work fine. And if it's too tight, cut a slit on the tube.
You can use momba 5400kv motor, with 1.725" tires, I use 16/88 ratio.
You can also get this motor here:
I have this coming my way, it's a slower motor:
I've also try Momba 6800kv, it's like mod speed, but very hard to gear though.
You have to use very small pinion and tires.
Just a few days ago, a 1800 mah became available on the ebay, click the link :http://stores.ebay.com/seemmy999
In the battery category, you will be looking for:
7.4V 1800mAh 25C Lipo Battery for 1:18 RC Car Truck
It comes as 2-cell 7.4 v.
I used a 2400mah pack like this:
It came as a 3-cell 11.V, I had to use my Dremel. Both are perfect in size. The 1800mah is lower in capacity, but higher C rate. It should provide more than 10 minutes run time. After 8-minutes qualifier with the 2400mah pack, I plug it into my charger, it showed that I still had 45 % capacity left in the battery. l did not feel any drop in speed for 12 minutes with this battery.
This set up is the best thing happen to 1/12.
Itís also available on www.hobbycity.com
Or better yet, it's cheaper here, the same place you can order the 2400mah battery:
I use this esc without the fan, I don't think it's needed for the tiny motor. This ESC will allow you to use it in 1/10 scale down to 9T motor, but in sensor less mode.