Are US Drivers Just Lazy?
10-15-2008, 04:32 PM
#31
If there was not brushless motors and lipos, I would not have even considered moving to electric TC.
10-15-2008, 04:55 PM
#32
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There have been many valid points made on this thread but the one that hits home is the post about experienced drivers running with newbs and people with limited experience or skill .There is a solution to the problem . Some series and race organizers will promote people through the ranks based on their finishes in a class. For example if you start in stock and place in the top 3 a certain # of times in the series you will graduate to super stock 13.5/ 19t. As for US racers being lazy, Dont think so. i am down on nimh and brushed motors because I usually run 2-3 classes,PLUS my 12 yr. old runs 2 classes. Thats 4-5 cars to keep going between rounds.It is much easier to do with li-po and brushles and still have consistant power without charging , discharging, traying, truing comms, replacing brushes, and if you add truing tires and chassis tuning on top of that And I used to be the energizer bunny of wrenching. I would lay a $10 bill out that says I can wrench on a car faster than most people can change tires!!
Some one brought up the fact that they see newbs race 3 or 4 times get frustrated and quit. It's the last couple generations of kids.when my 12 yr. old started racing He thought since he could drive on a video game he could drive an r/c car just as well. He got a quick reality check just trying to not let me lap him 4-5 times in a 4 minute run on a oval. He got frustrated and wanted to quit. that was 4 years ago when he was 8.since then he has realized that anything that is fun requires work and dedication to progress.It doesnt make it any less fun, it just makes that first a-main win taste that much sweeter. At 12 he now is a consistant A main Finisher(finished 8th in stock in our state 5 race series) , does most of the maintenance and setup on his cars, and has even beat me a couple times.But that first season he wanted to race , but didnt want to work on his car. It took me letting him run a pile of poop a couple times for him to realize that the car needed to be maintained between race days.So after that the standing rule was if you want to race you need to work on your car and learn what does what, and how to fix it if it breaks.
Some one else posted that they came from the time when there were only kits. I also come from this time (22 yrs ago) and I will agree that RTR's bring alot of newbs into the hobby.Problem is not every body likes to twist a wrench. So those that have no mechanical aptitude usually get out of the hobby just as soon as something breaks and they dont know how to fix it.I beleive this sport has 2 sides to it . The hobby which is building , setting up, hopping up , and general tinkering. And the racing which is really for the experienced hobbyist that knows all the basics of how to maintain build and set-up their cars. Make no mistake There is a difference. The problem is The revolving door of newbs is usually caused by people that buy RTR's to go racing with when they dont have the knowlege of a hobbyist. This is a not an elitist attitude, it's the truth.Just because someone can drive a car doesnt mean that they have a clue on how to wrench on it. That's how mechanics make their living. From your average person that just doesnt have the needed skills to fix things when they break.
Some one brought up the fact that they see newbs race 3 or 4 times get frustrated and quit. It's the last couple generations of kids.when my 12 yr. old started racing He thought since he could drive on a video game he could drive an r/c car just as well. He got a quick reality check just trying to not let me lap him 4-5 times in a 4 minute run on a oval. He got frustrated and wanted to quit. that was 4 years ago when he was 8.since then he has realized that anything that is fun requires work and dedication to progress.It doesnt make it any less fun, it just makes that first a-main win taste that much sweeter. At 12 he now is a consistant A main Finisher(finished 8th in stock in our state 5 race series) , does most of the maintenance and setup on his cars, and has even beat me a couple times.But that first season he wanted to race , but didnt want to work on his car. It took me letting him run a pile of poop a couple times for him to realize that the car needed to be maintained between race days.So after that the standing rule was if you want to race you need to work on your car and learn what does what, and how to fix it if it breaks.
Some one else posted that they came from the time when there were only kits. I also come from this time (22 yrs ago) and I will agree that RTR's bring alot of newbs into the hobby.Problem is not every body likes to twist a wrench. So those that have no mechanical aptitude usually get out of the hobby just as soon as something breaks and they dont know how to fix it.I beleive this sport has 2 sides to it . The hobby which is building , setting up, hopping up , and general tinkering. And the racing which is really for the experienced hobbyist that knows all the basics of how to maintain build and set-up their cars. Make no mistake There is a difference. The problem is The revolving door of newbs is usually caused by people that buy RTR's to go racing with when they dont have the knowlege of a hobbyist. This is a not an elitist attitude, it's the truth.Just because someone can drive a car doesnt mean that they have a clue on how to wrench on it. That's how mechanics make their living. From your average person that just doesnt have the needed skills to fix things when they break.
10-15-2008, 05:12 PM
#33
10-15-2008, 05:16 PM
#35
People talk about laziness like it's a bad thing
10-15-2008, 05:21 PM
#36
I think it is the more experienced drivers, the ones with money to spend on whatever they please for their car thats puts a lot of people off. If a minor league were created, one for beginners, not one that put the novices against the pro's with multi billion dollar car's (sarcasm) then it would let them build up experience first, not going straight for the fastest thing avalible.
The minor league is going to consist mainly of young people due to older people more than likely already having experience in this field or having the time to develop their experience much quicker than younger folk, this would make a brushless motor virtually unheard of due to lack of money and experience making it a much more competetive scene for less experienced drivers with middle of the bunch cars.
But until such a league is created and developed by rc racing organizers, new starters are going to see the pro's cars and go straight for what they have to try and compete.
What i think anyway
Oh and im not saying anything bad about experienced folk, just saying pitting them against newbie's is whats causing the problem.
The minor league is going to consist mainly of young people due to older people more than likely already having experience in this field or having the time to develop their experience much quicker than younger folk, this would make a brushless motor virtually unheard of due to lack of money and experience making it a much more competetive scene for less experienced drivers with middle of the bunch cars.
But until such a league is created and developed by rc racing organizers, new starters are going to see the pro's cars and go straight for what they have to try and compete.
What i think anyway
Oh and im not saying anything bad about experienced folk, just saying pitting them against newbie's is whats causing the problem.
10-16-2008, 01:34 AM
#39
2 Types of hobbists
Driver:
Prefers setting up the car, driving to prove himself.
Engineer:
Like the hands-on tech stuff. Truing comms, chosing brush spring combos, thinkerer.
Truth:
There is a part of both in us all: Thats why we are still in the hobby and bother posting into rcTECH forums.
ENJOY the hobby, who cares how you do it?
Just have FUN!
Driver:
Prefers setting up the car, driving to prove himself.
Engineer:
Like the hands-on tech stuff. Truing comms, chosing brush spring combos, thinkerer.
Truth:
There is a part of both in us all: Thats why we are still in the hobby and bother posting into rcTECH forums.
ENJOY the hobby, who cares how you do it?
Just have FUN!
10-16-2008, 05:31 AM
#40
At one time we were so stoked to work on and setup our TC's even motor maintenance was fun. Now it seems we don't want to know how it works and don't realize that the fast guys are fast because they understand the concept of how it work and how to make it work correctly.
10-16-2008, 06:03 AM
#41
I dont look at a brushed motor as a disadvantage.... I look at it as a challenge
10-16-2008, 07:52 AM
#44
Tech Regular
I think the fact is, you only have limited time between races. During that time you may want/need to:
-Marshall first!
-Change setup
-Change tires
-Prep tires (additive, warming etc)
-Change gearing
-Change cells
-Maintain cells you've just taken out
-Skim motor
-Re-brush motor
-Change motor setup (timing, springs etc etc)
So if you can reduce your workload by not having to skim and re-brush motors by going brushless, and not have to maintain the cells by using LiPo, that time can hence be spent on the other areas.
As for someone like Masami - I'm sure he has one mechanic who works on his motors, one for his tires and one to help him with working on the setup changes. Its just about time management, not about lazyness.
-Marshall first!
-Change setup
-Change tires
-Prep tires (additive, warming etc)
-Change gearing
-Change cells
-Maintain cells you've just taken out
-Skim motor
-Re-brush motor
-Change motor setup (timing, springs etc etc)
So if you can reduce your workload by not having to skim and re-brush motors by going brushless, and not have to maintain the cells by using LiPo, that time can hence be spent on the other areas.
As for someone like Masami - I'm sure he has one mechanic who works on his motors, one for his tires and one to help him with working on the setup changes. Its just about time management, not about lazyness.
10-16-2008, 09:53 AM
#45
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Ive been racing for a while, worked at a hobby shop, etc. There are a few things that I believe should be said. Old school people that cut their motors every run, re-oiled their bushings, etc were not lazy. I actually enjoyed this part of the hobby. Now, I dont have to do this because Im using brushless... now I sit around and BS, work on the car or work on someone elses car. This is not lazy. This is just DIFFERENT from what the old school are used to.
New school racers dont realize how amazing they have it at this time. Almost ready to run race truggies, buggies, brushless, lipo, foams that dont break everytime you hit a wall, cars that dont break everytime you hit a wall, and permanent facilities. Just because they do have all of these above said benefits of entering the hobby now, does not make them lazy either.
We are a rtr nation. RTR brings in more people to the hobby shops than anything else... plain and simple. These people that generally buy these aren't buying it for a hobby. They are buying for a toy but they have much greater possibility to be converted to a hobbyist once they have one.
Till we get back to the parking lot racing where they see fun competition in front of a hobby shop or high traffic area, we will continue to suffer from lack of numbers. Until then our potentials will stick to Wow, halo, or other competative social hobbies.
New school racers dont realize how amazing they have it at this time. Almost ready to run race truggies, buggies, brushless, lipo, foams that dont break everytime you hit a wall, cars that dont break everytime you hit a wall, and permanent facilities. Just because they do have all of these above said benefits of entering the hobby now, does not make them lazy either.
We are a rtr nation. RTR brings in more people to the hobby shops than anything else... plain and simple. These people that generally buy these aren't buying it for a hobby. They are buying for a toy but they have much greater possibility to be converted to a hobbyist once they have one.
Till we get back to the parking lot racing where they see fun competition in front of a hobby shop or high traffic area, we will continue to suffer from lack of numbers. Until then our potentials will stick to Wow, halo, or other competative social hobbies.