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Old 09-10-2008, 07:19 AM   #1
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Default World GT Club Racing - To spec or not to spec is the question????

Sup guys! We are trying to get our World GT class off an running at our local track. These are the rules we are thinking about so far:

- Any 200mm chassis
- 4 cell 4600 mah max
- 13.5 or 17.5 (any brand but still deciding which one)
- Jaco Lilac's
- Any IIC approved body until Sophia becomes widely available.
- run 5 minutes

We talked about doing a spec motor, but the feeback is people don't want to buy another motor and they want to run their brand X motor they already have. I see both sides of this coin for motors - cost vs. even playing field.

I think we are going to land on no spec motor just to keep cost down.

How does all the other rules sound? Should we open up tires to other brands of Lilacs? Just trying to be as fair as possible - I think we need to stick with the same shore rating, but I know others will soon follow.

Anyone tried a 17.5 in 1/10 Pan car? The reason we are leaning this way is to break the easy of entry barrier for newbies. It will be slow for some, but managable for EVERYONE.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions, concerns, compaints, or biSHes?
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:54 AM   #2
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4 Cell 17.5 is sloooowwww. 6 cell 17.5 is nice, but since it limits the chassis it's a tough call.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Anyone tried a 17.5 in 1/10 Pan car? The reason we are leaning this way is to break the easy of entry barrier for newbies. It will be slow for some, but managable for EVERYONE.
The original 17.5's were BUILT for Pan Car "OVAL" racing, and with some effort we were able to get them in cross over markets.

A 17.5/4 cell combo will run about the same as a 4 cell/27t Stock motor (but requires a lot more GEAR)

Similarly, a 17.5/6 cell (or LIPO) will run close to the same as a 27t STOCK w/ a 6 cell or LIPO.

4 cell / 13.5 should be a Good speed and not as hard to gear as the 17.5 on 4 cell. 17.5/6 cell (or LIPO) would also be pretty close to a 10.5/4 cell setup. (We will run those 2 together in pan cars on the oval) But for road racing, the acceleration may respond different (But top speeds should prove about the same)


NOTE:

Remember the Kv's ( = Unloaded RPMs per volt)

10.5 - 4200Kv 4 cell approx 20,700 6 cell approx 30,800
13.5 - 3300Kv 4 cell approx 16,300 6 cell approx 24,200
17.5 - 2200Kv 4 cell approx 10,700 6 cell approx 16,100

For oval, I usually figure close to a 40% rpm drop under load...for gearing.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:12 AM   #4
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Mark, Definitely go with the spec Jaco tire, as the costs of this tire will be better priced than other tires on the market (at least this is what I gather from reading the Jaco thread). As for motor, I am not sure on the same brand issue... I did like that everyone pretty much had the same horse power at the IIC, and it seemed to work out well. For club racing, the 13.5 will be fine for the more-than-amateur types. At our local track we will not be spec-ing a motor. I think it is more for testing to see what people want to drag to the un-controlled BYOM races. We will be sticking to all the rules of the world gt as posted on Scotty's site...

We have a Speed Spec class at our track that we use for fun and teaching nooBs how to drive. We are using 21.5 4-cells. Plenty of speed for them and extremely competitive.
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Last edited by timmay70; 09-10-2008 at 10:03 AM. Reason: more was less, it should have been more.... oops!
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:50 AM   #5
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:01 AM   #6
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For Club Racing

Spec tires I'd avoid......
Motor 13.5 4 cell.........[we use here] or with 27t &6 cells/LIPO
Body ......any GT....more than the IIC list has
Min weight 1133g

Our group is both new and OLD OLD cars The class is fairly open to let guys use old tires or bodies to have some fun.......... This is working for us in Dayton...
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:02 AM   #7
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We're gonna try and get the class going here. So far we are looking at:

Any 200mm pan chassis
Any 200mm bodies (this may change at some point).
Power is either 13.5 4 cell or 17.5 2 cell Lipo
Hopefully we will also be using the new Jaco Lilacs
5 minute races.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:37 AM   #8
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Agree with Timmay70's post, and would add...

Control tyre is good, especially if using the Jaco Lilac indoors. Reports are excellent grip and wear. Control tyre gives the feeling of level playing field, and makes it easier for shops to have ample supply so they are cheap and easy to get.

Motors - a wind limit to start with. If it turns out to become a motor war, bring in a spec class, not a spec motor. Give people choice, they'll vote with their feet, you'll end up where you need to be - in this case the best decisions will be made by your 'market', so give it room to decide.

Weight limit - too high. Our cars (BMI, Corally, AE) are all coming in at about 1060g as built. 1133 means you have to find three ounces of weight, and know where to put it. That's making a tuning aid when one isn't needed. Make the weight something everyone can meet easily. I would go for 1030, then simple hop ups (screws, body posts, etc.) mean everyone can meet a limit. Why make it more difficult by having everyone add weight? Keep it simple, keep it cheap.

Otherwise, like you, we will be proposing basically Scotty's IIC Rules for the British Radio Car Assocation AGM next month. Great new class IMHO
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:42 AM   #9
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I think the weight limit is good. It is better to have to add some weight to the light cars than to try and figure out how to lose the weight on some of the older heavy cars. One of the guys that runs with us in Dayton has a speed spec II and it is way over weight. To get it down to something below 1133 he might as well buy a new car. I really like this class and hope to see it grow.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:53 AM   #10
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I would spec a "shore" on tire, but not a brand. Allow other tire manufacturers the opportunity to enter the fray as long as they remain in line with the specified shore. The old StreetSpec class was nice, although short-lived and there were quite a few manufacturers that offered tires for that class, TRC, Bolink, etc.

I also think spec'ing a motor is a bad idea. One of the things that will help this class grow is cross-class compatibility, having to buy a $75 motor just for one class, could make or break the class for some folks.

Other than that the rules sound solid.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
We have a Speed Spec class at our track that we use for fun and teaching nooBs how to drive. We are using 21.5 4-cells. Plenty of speed for them and extremely competitive.

I know this is off topic, but how do you keep that class going? i would assume most of your seasoned racers are not or will not run that class. so do you always have an influx of new/rookie drivers?

I ask this because we are trying to use wgt as the "entry" class. but we also need to make it interesting for the seasoned racer so that we can maintain a class from weekend to weekend. so to pick lets say a tt01 class, i just don't see our seasoned racers getting one and then how to bring newbies/rookies into the community of wgt racing if we "go to fast" for them.

we have thought about starting with 17.5 and then breaking off to 13.5 when we have more racers. but I really think that is just thinning the classes again. And i believe that a large group all racing in the same class is more fun then a bunch of classes with 4-6 people
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. McGoo View Post
Sup guys! We are trying to get our World GT class off an running at our local track. These are the rules we are thinking about so far:

- Any 200mm chassis
- 4 cell 4600 mah max
- 13.5 or 17.5 (any brand but still deciding which one)
- Jaco Lilac's
- Any IIC approved body until Sophia becomes widely available.
- run 5 minutes

We talked about doing a spec motor, but the feeback is people don't want to buy another motor and they want to run their brand X motor they already have. I see both sides of this coin for motors - cost vs. even playing field.

I think we are going to land on no spec motor just to keep cost down.

How does all the other rules sound? Should we open up tires to other brands of Lilacs? Just trying to be as fair as possible - I think we need to stick with the same shore rating, but I know others will soon follow.

Anyone tried a 17.5 in 1/10 Pan car? The reason we are leaning this way is to break the easy of entry barrier for newbies. It will be slow for some, but managable for EVERYONE.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions, concerns, compaints, or biSHes?
Good to see you're building off the IIC World GT rules. Go with a 10.5 instead of a 13.5. What about ride height? Everything else looks spot on.

I'm loving it...First USVTA comes along, then World GT and they all have no affiliation with ROAR.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
I know this is off topic, but how do you keep that class going? i would assume most of your seasoned racers are not or will not run that class. so do you always have an influx of new/rookie drivers?

I ask this because we are trying to use wgt as the "entry" class. but we also need to make it interesting for the seasoned racer so that we can maintain a class from weekend to weekend. so to pick lets say a tt01 class, i just don't see our seasoned racers getting one and then how to bring newbies/rookies into the community of wgt racing if we "go to fast" for them.

we have thought about starting with 17.5 and then breaking off to 13.5 when we have more racers. but I really think that is just thinning the classes again. And i believe that a large group all racing in the same class is more fun then a bunch of classes with 4-6 people
We have and had an awesome core of premier sedan drivers that are able to park a sedan deep in the A mains at any of our national level events racing at our local track. These drivers are always helpful in helping people set-up their sedans. However, even with all that knowledge, there are people that love carpet, yet don't like the complexity and up-keep of sedans. Because World GT really hadn't taken off in our area, quite a few decided that Speed Spec was the way to go. And they had a blast doing it.

To keep carpet racing going in the summer we held a 15 week point series that took us right up to the IIC with 5 throw-outs. This will plant a group into a class and keep them there. Interestingly, we have some great drivers that would pick-up a car from one of the many people that have them and act as a ringer and give people something to drive for, kind of like the rabbit at a dog track...

The noobs aren't that fixated on wins more than they are interested in figuring out how to drive well. And this is a point that we emphasize a lot at our track. It's more important to drive well than worry about the win all the time. There are always ringers in that class. We also use bump-ups, and this gives something for the people in lower mains something to shoot for. A lot of times this is the largest class at our track.
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:34 PM   #14
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What about a body height minimum? I heard they used 95mm(???) at the IIC, but all the Corvettes looked slammed. Why not something taller, like 100mm, or even 105 so the cars look like cars. I know scale looks actually have made Trans Am grow in ridiculous fashion...
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:11 PM   #15
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It's an interesting point. From the viewpoint of getting 'fresh blood' realistic cars can have a large draw. The issue I see as equally important is function. Some of the new GT bodies are very close to sedans but should work sooooo much better. It is my hope that the increased function will help keep more experienced drivers in while making cars easier to drive for new people.

Guess I'm more inclined towards a car that works better vs. looks more real. But if I'm going 'really fast' around the track......... by myself, well....... thats just no good.
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