R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-24-2010, 08:02 AM   #571
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 774
Default

**edit**

Last edited by DJG24; 02-24-2010 at 10:01 AM.
DJG24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 09:26 AM   #572
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern & Central Illinois
Posts: 4,337
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

However, with a 2S the weight increases and so does the tire wear and cost.

I have a whole season on my tires and they'll be good to make it to the end of the season. 55mm to start and after 6 races I'm at 53.8mm. The 1S is easy and a RX pack is less than the cost of tires, the 1S saves the cost of another set of tires. It takes only 80 to 110mah to charge the RX pack or about 10 minutes.

Honestly, I don't see any real advantage to stop using a less expensive and easy to maintain set-up for something that can cost more and is not universally accepted yet.

It is something like this that will kill a class in no time.

1/12 scale has been around for over twenty years because there have been very few changes, except for the latest using BL and Lipo. Now we are seeing all kinds of variations that tend to dilute the classes and lower entry into the hobby.

Give people too many choices and they will get confused and quit in short order.
AreCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 09:58 AM   #573
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 774
Default

**edit**
DJG24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 10:29 AM   #574
Tech Champion
 
Kwikvdub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 5,956
Trader Rating: 89 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Kwikvdub
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oreo View Post
......though I don't have the rule book to guide me , I have a Rc 10L that I'd like to prep to run in WGT - eventually i to will be practicing at RcMadness -this thread is like another life line for me as build the car accordingly(ie. appropriate body w/in the proper weight parameters, and when applicabe, spec tires).....there's more to it than that, i'm sure but in the mean time , I like keeping up with this thread.
That's how I started WGT in my local track at 360 Speedway in L.I., NY, in 2008 and the car was a lot of fun to drive. Once I stuck to Speed Merchant and there link cars, I gave my car to a friend who is very happy running a T-Bar car. Still on the road, indoor and out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miket3 View Post
Are you guys finding a 17.5 2 C being equal to the 13.5 1C ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJG24 View Post
When the 1s 13.5 cars are running Tekin software, the 2s 17.5 without software are about the same.

A lot of people who did not have Tekin speed controllers went to 2s to stay competitive and it worked out. They are also happier because they hated charging the receiver pack all the time .


Quote:
Originally Posted by AreCee View Post
It's interesting that people think the Tekin gives a BIG edge. We haven't seen that at our rather smallish track in 1/12 and WGT. I used an old GTB with a Booster and was as competitive as I am now with the Tekin and RX pack. Our Top Qualifier still uses a 4cell GTB and scores fastest laps and # of laps over Tekin equipped.

What we have found out is that good driving, a smooth line and learning to roll the throttle will increase the performance much more than buying a new ESC. BTW: One person showed up with an AE ESC and it was fast but didn't qualify as well as the GTB (can you say driver?).

Just throwing out my two cents.
I ran my ole' reliable 4 cell GTB in my WGT for 2 years and the car was very competitive...... In fact, I ran my carpet set-up outdoors during the whole summer last year with the spec tires, which gave great grip and wear and I did not use a booster or receiver pack and the car ran flawless after the proper gearing......... I also noticed the corvette body ran real good outdoors and the Sophia runs real good indoors......... Simply love this class......... I now run the tekin/203 set-up with a receiver pack and the car is more responsive and it feels crisper........

..And....as we moved into the brushless/LiPo era, it has simplified this class. And now with these spec tires that run great indoor or out, there's no excuse why you can't have a great time out on the track.......

........ Try running one today, you'll be hooked........
__________________
Alex Valdes

TQRacing / 360 V2 RC Raceway
Kwikvdub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:07 AM   #575
Tech Master
 
2wdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreCee View Post
However, with a 2S the weight increases and so does the tire wear and cost.

I have a whole season on my tires and they'll be good to make it to the end of the season. 55mm to start and after 6 races I'm at 53.8mm. The 1S is easy and a RX pack is less than the cost of tires, the 1S saves the cost of another set of tires. It takes only 80 to 110mah to charge the RX pack or about 10 minutes.

Honestly, I don't see any real advantage to stop using a less expensive and easy to maintain set-up for something that can cost more and is not universally accepted yet.

It is something like this that will kill a class in no time.

1/12 scale has been around for over twenty years because there have been very few changes, except for the latest using BL and Lipo. Now we are seeing all kinds of variations that tend to dilute the classes and lower entry into the hobby.

Give people too many choices and they will get confused and quit in short order.
During the 1:12 EPS stock class the 4cell drivers were faster then the 1s drivers even though the 4cells are heavier. It is all about voltage. During modified the difference between 1s and 4cells was equal.

The weight difference of 1s and 2s is what? 100-150 grams? The voltage is twice the amount though. In stock that counts, specially on bigger tracks.
2wdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:28 AM   #576
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern & Central Illinois
Posts: 4,337
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I think the biggest problem people have with spec classes is that they are not winning the A-Main right out of the box.

It is the urge for instant gratification that is one of the reasons they look to buy faster and better.

Our WGT class is Spec and the competition is very, very close speedwise. It is the small nuances that result in a podium win more than the power of the vehicle. It comes down to whoever makes the fewest mistakes and can drive the smoothest will be rewarded with a win. It is not the one with the latest ESC Mojo. I have not even come close to winning in WGT but I have not had so much fun in any class for the longest time. I really look forward to seeing how much I have improved and how much more I need to improve.

That to me is the essence of a Spec class, you race for a PB.

Once you start allowing different variations to race in the same heat, it won't take long for the cheating to start.

So if you want a 2S 17.5 WGT class fine but don't mix it with a 1S 13.5 WGT class. That way apples race against apples and not oranges.
AreCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:59 AM   #577
Tech Master
 
2wdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreCee View Post
I think the biggest problem people have with spec classes is that they are not winning the A-Main right out of the box.

It is the urge for instant gratification that is one of the reasons they look to buy faster and better.

Our WGT class is Spec and the competition is very, very close speedwise. It is the small nuances that result in a podium win more than the power of the vehicle. It comes down to whoever makes the fewest mistakes and can drive the smoothest will be rewarded with a win. It is not the one with the latest ESC Mojo. I have not even come close to winning in WGT but I have not had so much fun in any class for the longest time. I really look forward to seeing how much I have improved and how much more I need to improve.

That to me is the essence of a Spec class, you race for a PB.

Once you start allowing different variations to race in the same heat, it won't take long for the cheating to start.

So if you want a 2S 17.5 WGT class fine but don't mix it with a 1S 13.5 WGT class. That way apples race against apples and not oranges.
you are right. They should not mix.

The thought was that 1s lipo would be equal to 4cell nihm (less weight with less voltage equals to more weight with more voltage) as some tests people did with 1s lipo vs nihm supposed to be in that direction. But it clearly showed it wasn't the case in a full blown racing inviroment.
2wdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 12:08 PM   #578
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 774
Default

I understand your point but when our season started there were 3 cars and almost no class. One day a guy bought a car but didnt want to run one cell and a receiver pack or buy a speed control. He ran 2s and we found that the 17.5 ran at the same pace as the other cars with 1s 13.5. We allowed him to run and before you know it 8 more people bought WGT cars because they could run the current speed controls, not mess with software or receiver packs. Now we have a good class. If thats what it took to get the class going then so be it. More racers = more fun!

If the cars are the same speed and there is no advantage then why does it matter what motor/battery combo you use. The racing is still tight, cars are even and no one is crying foul! The only difference is there are a lot more people wanting to get in and the class is growing.

And just an FYI - 1s 13.5 cars went first and second this week so I cant see why not relax the rules if it doesnt give an advantage and helps promote the class.

2wddrive -even though the 2s cars have more voltage they are using slower motors and no software timing advance (aka tekin) on the speed control so they are essentially the same speed.
DJG24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 01:11 PM   #579
Tech Master
 
2wdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJG24 View Post
I understand your point but when our season started there were 3 cars and almost no class. One day a guy bought a car but didnt want to run one cell and a receiver pack or buy a speed control. He ran 2s and we found that the 17.5 ran at the same pace as the other cars with 1s 13.5. We allowed him to run and before you know it 8 more people bought WGT cars because they could run the current speed controls, not mess with software or receiver packs. Now we have a good class. If thats what it took to get the class going then so be it. More racers = more fun!

If the cars are the same speed and there is no advantage then why does it matter what motor/battery combo you use. The racing is still tight, cars are even and no one is crying foul! The only difference is there are a lot more people wanting to get in and the class is growing.

And just an FYI - 1s 13.5 cars went first and second this week so I cant see why not relax the rules if it doesnt give an advantage and helps promote the class.

2wddrive -even though the 2s cars have more voltage they are using slower motors and no software timing advance (aka tekin) on the speed control so they are essentially the same speed.
Then you really have a good thing going.

Indeed the more cars the better. certainly to get a class going you need everything on the track to let people see how great it is.
2wdrive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 01:20 PM   #580
Tech Addict
 
jland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 654
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreCee View Post
I think the biggest problem people have with spec classes is that they are not winning the A-Main right out of the box.

It is the urge for instant gratification that is one of the reasons they look to buy faster and better.

Our WGT class is Spec and the competition is very, very close speedwise. It is the small nuances that result in a podium win more than the power of the vehicle. It comes down to whoever makes the fewest mistakes and can drive the smoothest will be rewarded with a win. It is not the one with the latest ESC Mojo. I have not even come close to winning in WGT but I have not had so much fun in any class for the longest time. I really look forward to seeing how much I have improved and how much more I need to improve.

That to me is the essence of a Spec class, you race for a PB.

Once you start allowing different variations to race in the same heat, it won't take long for the cheating to start.

So if you want a 2S 17.5 WGT class fine but don't mix it with a 1S 13.5 WGT class. That way apples race against apples and not oranges.


Where are you racing WGT in Illinois? Where about in the summer?
jland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 01:47 PM   #581
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern & Central Illinois
Posts: 4,337
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jland View Post
Where are you racing WGT in Illinois? Where about in the summer?
Summer is dirt.

I think that they may set up a WGT class for parking lot races at Strictly RC in Norridge. The Track in Winthrop Harbor used to have a WGT class but it's too far for me to drive. Underground RC may have summer races in Chicago's South Side.

We are currently racing at the Jtec Loft in Danville IL on Sundays until outdoor season begins then it's dirt at Jtec in Tilton, IL. Check out Jtec Racing and Fun.

At the Loft we race 1/12, WGT, Slash, Late Model Oval, Mini Slash and Stadium Truck.
AreCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2010, 03:19 PM   #582
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 515
Default

i have a wgt car, and i have been running it indoors on carpet. tires started out at 55 mm. now that the asphalt season is almost here, should i start with the same size,(55 mm) or go to a larger tire size front and rear? the tracks here are very large(speed world is roseville, norcal in union city, and ripon speedway)???
thanks in advance.
gdcopbdcop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2010, 03:22 PM   #583
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London Ontario Canada
Posts: 557
Talking

Official 2010 SCAR (Spec Canadian Auto Racing) / World GT Challenge Classes Updated March 4th 2010

1/ SCAR / World GT CHALLENGE

a/ CHASSIS - 200MM Pan Car Chassis
b/ MINIMUM WEIGHT - 1,000 Grams [WGT 930 Grams]
c/ BATTERY - ORION 2400 LIPO Battery Part#14104 or #14007 [WGT any 3.7V Single LIPO]
d/ MOTOR - NOVAK 17.5 SS Brushless Motor Part#3417 or Novak Ballistic 17.5 Part #3617
[WGT any 10.5 Brushless]
e/ TIRES - JACO Spec Tires (#JAC2100 Front #JAC2110 Rear) / CRC Spec Tires (#CRC2300 Front # CRC2302 Rear) all these tires are similar compound.
f/ BODY - HPI GT Body - based on Street Legal Sports Cars - Cars must be Numbered and Lettered and you are encouraged painting it to resemble a real race car. The Protoform COT Body Part #1230-30 is also legal and recommended for the OVAL. [WGT Protoform Sophia also legal]
g/ Six Minute Races

2/ SCAR 25.5 / World GT 17.5 CHALLENGE
a/ CHASSIS - 200MM Pan Car Chassis
b/ MINIMUM WEIGHT - 1,030 Grams [WGT 930 Grams]
c/ BATTERY - ORION 2400 LIPO Battery Part#14104 or #14007 [WGT any 3.7V Single LIPO]
d/ MOTOR - NOVAK 25.5 SS Brushless Motor Part##3425V or NOVAk Ballistic 25.5 Part #3625V [WGT any 17.5 Brushless]
e/ SPEED CONTROL - Novak Havok 2S Sport ESC Part Number 1732 [WGT any ESC]
f/ TIRES - JACO Spec Tires (#JAC2100 Front #JAC2110 Rear) / CRC Spec Tires (#CRC2300 Front # CRC2302 Rear) all these tires are similar compound.
g/ BODY - HPI Body - based on Street Legal 4 Passenger Sports Cars - Cars must be Numbered and Lettered and you are encouraged painting it to resemble a real race car. The Protoform COT Body Part #1230-30 is also legal and recommended for the OVAL [WGT any HPI 200mm Bodies or Protoform Sophia]
h/ Six Minute Qualifiers - Eight Minute Mains
__________________
Attached Thumbnails
World GT Club Racing - To spec or not to spec is the question????-25helmethat.jpg  
ElliotCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 05:22 PM   #584
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,978
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

WIth the World Challenge championship (formerly SPEED World Challenge) getting ready to roll for the 2010 season, do you think that maybe trying to partner with them and doing some demos at WC events would help the exposure of the class?
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 11:30 AM   #585
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,978
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

Anybody know of any tracks in the central or southwest VA area (or North Central NC) area that run this class?
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New JACO World GT spec tire Jack Rimer Electric On-Road 105 12-30-2011 04:25 PM
Peak Racing "World Spec" GP 3700 6 cell packs johnnyboydh R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 0 10-20-2006 08:08 AM
1/5 Club or Sports Spec Racing at Moorebank ElectricConvert Australian Racing 0 07-10-2006 05:40 AM
Sanyo HV 3000 World Spec Cheap!!!! TeamButter R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 5 12-26-2002 07:27 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:21 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0