Tommi Makkinen

iTrader: (28)

maybe... but it still does not answer the question how did he manage to wear that comm down to that level and that nicely without removing the endbell and leaving marks on the side tabs?

A X O

iTrader: (51)

that's common sense my friend, of course he has the special cutting tool for cutting sealed motors. that's why you can see in the picture the difference. my guess about 2mm.

Tommi Makkinen

iTrader: (28)

in that case, then they have one hell of a tool for it to be brought in and be used without anyone of us being able know about it...


time i think for Tamiya to have a rethink on those rules... either that or consider stiffer penalties for the offending player or team in general...

Wolf

Good picture, now we have hard evident, it's time to call Tamiya Japan.

Come on, don't just BS in the forum, do something useful. It's not right to let a guy to cheat 7 years in a row. Please, do something useful for us.

My eyesight is not very good, is the comm color red?
Had these comm cut by a lathe or other similar tools?

Quote from earlier post:
"i saw that my comm is still shiny and it's color is not red, it is normal.
but both of hongkong drivers comm is not shiny and it's color is alredy red
and middle of comm color is black. it means when they use this motor,
during that time it's tunning too much fast!!!!"

PARK YOUNG HUN

iTrader: (1)

hmm...

marvi

iTrader: (82)

you shouldve borrowed this, back in the late 90's ... accord PIAA days remember our sealed dynarun stock motors?

stock comm lathe

edison_c

Wow! I see this thread is still buzzing with activities. I am just astounded at how long this thread can hold its spot there, although it has been demoted to page 2. But I suppose we all hate cheaters and we are even more disgusted by those who conspire with the cheaters. Is there a conspiracy here? Maybe we should have Stephen Spielberg make a movie out of this and have it titled “RC Conspiracy”? I bet it will be quite a hit, but we have to ask Mr. Spielberg to have a disclaimer and letter of indemnity from all that is involve. After all Mr. Spielberg will be portraying a true story and we would not want the good audiences all assembling in Malaysia waiting to give your detested CMA a good kick up his crouch, and your CMA claiming against Mr. Spielberg, would we?

To answer a few questions or statement that was addressed to me. mitsubishi, is right in saying that “if there's no root, there's no tree or for every tree there's a root... for those cheaters who wants to win all time, just buy trophy for themselves and face the mirror...” , but you see I would like to win too(although I have not bought trophies for myself and look in the mirror), but I would not be stooping so low as to cheat in such obvious ways, although I suppose if you cheat there is always a way to be caught. It all depends on the inspectors, whether he is smart or just another bloke. In our case here, with the new photo evidences, I cannot understand why the inspectors did not just DQ that fellow? It is that obvious! The root are the cheaters, the tree are the inspectors, but roots grow from a seed, only when the environment is right, it will become a tree, if the environmentis not ideal, the seed with its young root, would just be a root and perish. From what I can recall, Park got the ticket to goto Japan although he is classified as 3rd as Perry went last year and Wu ChakMing went for so many years already. But I guess this is not why we are arguing our sock off. It the principle that we are fighting for here, it is for the benefit for all future racers/races and especially for TACs in the future.

We can definitely understand why one would like to cheat, but why did the inspectors let the cheaters off without a DQ or even a penalty? It is just so mind boggling to me! Is it because the cheaters will not be awarded a ticket to Japan so they can be let off? The other part that I cannot understand is how the organizers can just close one eye and let everything off like that!! The other thing that I cannot understand is how so many racers who participated in the event can just leave everything to a few of us here, writing our hands off and not at least have a little point of view towards these matters, may it be pro or against our views here? To be fair, Amat did contribute to this thread albeit in the wrong way. It is not a matter that concerns you I understand, because you are not the one that is ripped off of your title or position, but what would you do if its you? We should all come together and partition to Tamiya Japan to have them overturn the results. I am not trying to be a trouble maker here, we are trying to help Tamiya redeem itself from all racers worldwide as TAC is such an esteem event(Before 2008 that is), it will be a pity to see that the series would be tainted and dwindle because of its inconsistent ruling this year. I do not speak for all, but I can imagine that at least a few countries are more than a little upset and disgusted by these incidents.

So for Malaysian racers, how is the situation there with your CMA? Remote control atmosphere? I can only imagine here that it will only get from bad to worse, especially with the new photo evidences that was presented by Sean S.. There are certain responsibilities that a organizer should be holding, but I suppose when you have carpet of that quality, all the organizer and his helpers can only have time and effort to help the ailing carpet, but not anything else. This is just B.S. that these carpets can be laid down for races in the first place. I suppose from what I can access from this thread is how your CMA can leave everything to the individual teams and inspectors, or maybe just to summarize, INCOMPETENT! Its just that simple. So how did he manage to get Tamiya in your area? Hmmm....... I wonder if he can continue to run the show there in Malaysia? By the way, what other options of brands you have in Malaysia? Haha........

I would also like to personally thank Marvi for showing Amat that there is such an equipment in the RC world, maybe its because Amat is just so enclosed in his little house(OK, its just a figure of speech, nothing against people from HK), that he does not know there are so many things that are available to racers, not with the intention to cheat.

So I would have to agree with Wolf, lets all ring Tamiya and give them a piece of our mind. If not we can always make our point known here for them to address.

Cheerio

fc3s

calling bulu to reply .

GFT

iTrader: (7)

Hello RedEnzo,

Look who took your advice! Heh! Heh! Heh!, So are you giving free lesson?

Cheers dude!

Photo is remove due to the request of the novice pilot, ,

ongl

iTrader: (2)

Thanks GFT,
for removing the photo....

RedEnzo.... The "nemo" is not that indestructible. Sigh!

tc3team

Bad karma exists for the people who knowingly cheat... Whoever is going to Japan better make sure those wheel nuts are tight and have good eyes in the back of their head if they did cheat, you never know when that bad karma may strike...

The Bear

iTrader: (13)

why not just go with a 21.5 brushless system? You can all turn the timing up on the motor and speedo so you get the most out of the combo, and everyone can move onto overinflated tires/etc as the next big 'cheat topic'.


I wish the shear genious of cheating was more appreciated as an advancement to the entire sport. Racer guy 'A' is obviously faster than everyone. Find out what he did and tell EVERYONE. Not to tattle, but to let everyone else go faster as well. It would take the powers that be to modify the rules along with the advancement of a given technology, but if the sport changed with the advancements, we'd all be driving faster cars...... ok, I'm in.

Allow for lipo, brushless and some finer tuning options like glueing tires to allow for inflation/diameter, and pre-rule the use of weights as a tuning option if you go to lipo. Maybe, a little lower cg..... make them a little more racey. not like neglige' but still hot.

RedEnzo

iTrader: (2)

good for you GFT, come koin me in Puchong Putra Prima flying field and we can race pylon planes....

Okaylah.... agree.... but it's a tough cookie.... My friend crashed it several times and just glue it together and fly again.... Can't do that with normal foam or balsa...

Kevin CBR

iTrader: (11)

I am amazed at all the accusations flying on this thread. And to think, we thought we had drama at the North America TCS Nationals. I ran and finished 6th in the A main in what we call GT-2 class. Mostly TA05's, TB-02's and TB-03's. MY teamamtes finished, ninth, third and first also in the A main. We had "hand-out" motors and batteries. We ran the 540 Black Sport motor and 2400 LIPO batteries. In our mini (M-Chassis) class, they used silver cans and 2400 LIPO's. There was a lot of cries of cheating and that the winners of both classes cheated. Even an American who was not even at the race who has posted on this thread claimed "the cheaters won" regarding our Nationals. However, there cries were wrong. There was one driver who had a magnet in his pocket in the mini class who was trying to enhance the strength of his motor magnets under the tech table and was caught and disqualified. Now, the person who won mini was called a cheater and he just "had to have" an illegal motor. Well, there was no tire diameter rule and he ran the radilas that baloon and he stuffed the heck out of them with inserts. This gave him a larger tire diameter than those running the 60-D type A tires. Cheating ? Nope, but many accused him of cheating because too many people think that if someone beats you, he has to be cheating. In our GT-2 class, my team mate that won and is going to Japan was accused of using illegal motor drops on his motor when cleaning AFTER Q1 which he TQ'ed. So, they took away that motor, he put in his second motor (we are allowed to buy two for the weekend) and with many people watching another team mate putting in his motor (as he was busy putting in my motor), my team mate went out and ran the only 20 lap run in the GT-2 class to TQ Q2. Moral of this story, cheating is cheating only when there is proof. The guy with the magnet in his pocket and was caught was cheating. The two guys that won were accused of cheating but were not.

Now - here is what Tamiya America did for the spec motor classes (GT-1 was 10.5 brushless) to ensure no "enhacncements" outside the rules happened. All motors in GT-2 and Mini had to use the stock Tamiya wiring and bullet plugs. You went to tech and installed your motor in front of the tech people just before your race. Your motor had to stay above the table. After the race, you had to remove your motor at a second tech table in front of the tech crew. No spec motors ever left the tech area. On top of this, Tamiya dynoed brand new motors to make sure the rpm's were all within about 200 rpm and gave every driver in the A-Main a brand new motor to run your three A mains with. Now, to do this took about 6-8 people to watch both areas of tech to insure no one tampered with their motors. Perhaps TAC could learn from Tamiya America's tight motor control for our Nationals.

As a complete outsider, here are some observations having read this thread from the very first post.

First - The guy in buggy class who did not marshall. It seems there was a number of languages spoken at this event. We are fortunate not to have that problem in our Nationals. However, it is the Race Directors responsibility to have disqualified the driver immediaetly for not marshalling after A2. Calling him a "cheater" because he did not marshall is a joke. Did he understand the language the announcer used ? Did the race directors go to the driver shortly after the violation to tell him he was disqualified so he would then have to ran A3 to try to win ? No they did not. I read that the race directors tore his car down to check legality and did not return the car (in pieces) until after A3. So, you all want to take away his title becuase the Race Directors screwd up ? To me, the Malaysian driver who would not take his 2nd place awards was the poor sport. Face it, he finished second becuase the other driver drove better. Marshalling or not had nothng to do with him getting beat on the track.

The winner of the M-chassis class - Lots of cries that his motor "had to be illegal". There was "proof" as his comm was a red color, not shiny and burnt in the center. Then comes more "proof". Pictures of the illegal motors them selves ! But wait, one picture is blurred. Then the pictures appear again without the blurr. But that comm is not real red and is not burnt. So, which "proof" is now being used to call someone a cheater ? Humm, looks like somebody is pretty good with Adobe Photoshop or other graphic program. Now, based on other points and comments, it looks like there is more accusing and assuming someone was cheating raher then actual proof someone was cheating. For instance:

Was the person who supposedly had the "illegal motors" the faster car on the straight ? Someone posted to look at the videos of the actual race and that others were faster in a straight line than the "cheater". Well, was the guy with the claimed illegal motor the fastest on the straight ? He should have been.

It is assumed the cheater used a motor lathe to cut his comm. I saw a picture of the pit areas. Looks pretty open. How could someone cut a comm without others seeing or hearing this ? Was he hiding in the bathroom ? Could you take the motors away from the track at night ? Did he have some secret sound proof box he was using ?

Motor shavings in the "proof he was cheating pictures". Now, if a person is going to cheat and use a motor lathe on his motor, knowing the motors will be torn down after the race, you don't think he is going to heavily spray his motor to get the shavings out ? There was a lot of shavings in that motor, not a little. You can get a motor, even a sealed end bell motor a lot cleaner than what was seen in that picture.

Someone jokingly mentioned "fingerprints" but is was a good point. Since the pictures were posted to "prove" a motor was illegal, does the same person have a picture that shows the head and body of the Tamiya tech person who is holidign those motors ? If not, that could be me, holding the motors sitting in Southern Cailfornia while my friend adds "TAC 2008" to the picture using and computer graphics program.

I am not saying anyone did or did not cheat in the M-Chassis class. However, if people consider what the buggy class Champion did was "cheating", then I would question the thinking or motives of some of those claiming others cheated. Having just gone through my own team mate being called a cheater, fully knowing he was not, just becuase he was fast and won our National Championships, I do know it is frustrating to be called a cheater by others when they are wrong. So why, as some have asked, don't the cheaters "defend themselves" and post on this thread that they are not cheating ? Why should they ? Those that accuse them now of cheating are convinced they are and will only continue to call them a cheater so nothing will be gained. I personally would not post to defend myself to a bunch of people claiming I cheated just so they can accuse me more and directly. Would you ?

I hope that you guys can work together to improve next years TAC series. I am fortunate to travel to Hong Kong a few times a year and hope to participate in an HK series race some time just for the experience and to make new friends in what I like to think is a great HOBBY ! Yes, this is a hobby. Most of us racing Tamiya regardless of the country are racing for fun and sport, not to make a living being sponsored.

uzzi

iTrader: (3)

I think to an extent what has been posted has been is more of an attack on the TAC officials and how the rules were changed on the fly once the event was on the way. The two cases that have been mentioned were just examples of how rules were not observed and enforced. Racers will always find ways to bend the rules but to be caught and nothing done by the officials would be what the outcry will be about.