Which Tamiya chassis for Japan 23T class - TRF 416 or TB Evo 5 MS?
09-05-2008, 07:16 AM
#31
Yo Paulie, it's the Beef again. I figure I'd give you my 2 cents 
I would think that you should go with shaft drive. After reading all your threads and posts, I feel like you are subconsciously VERY much a fan of shaft drive. Why? You were a TC3 driver, and you like the direct drive feel.
In a world where shaft and belt are both competitive than ever, I believe that the REAL edge you're going to get is mental. How confident are you at attacking the turn? Do you think your car will pull to the side on a long straight? Do you cut the corner more to compensate for any flaws in the drive system.
If you feel like SD is more direct and will transfer all your power, you will be subconsciously driving more confidently than you would if you are driving belt (my guess). Due to your experience, you are more comfortable with SD, and belt might be subconsciously more tentative.
You know how you said the TB03 was a dream to drive? A part of that may be due to your feeling confident and familiar with belt drive. "I know this chassis already. I know how shaft can attack corners. I can use my aggressiveness to my advantage because I know shaft will handle it."
I say go with the SD. Your subconscious is working a lot more than you think (it's working in all of us, in all of our decisions and actions). Go with what you KNOW you're comfortable with.
I would think that you should go with shaft drive. After reading all your threads and posts, I feel like you are subconsciously VERY much a fan of shaft drive. Why? You were a TC3 driver, and you like the direct drive feel.
In a world where shaft and belt are both competitive than ever, I believe that the REAL edge you're going to get is mental. How confident are you at attacking the turn? Do you think your car will pull to the side on a long straight? Do you cut the corner more to compensate for any flaws in the drive system.
If you feel like SD is more direct and will transfer all your power, you will be subconsciously driving more confidently than you would if you are driving belt (my guess). Due to your experience, you are more comfortable with SD, and belt might be subconsciously more tentative.
You know how you said the TB03 was a dream to drive? A part of that may be due to your feeling confident and familiar with belt drive. "I know this chassis already. I know how shaft can attack corners. I can use my aggressiveness to my advantage because I know shaft will handle it."
I say go with the SD. Your subconscious is working a lot more than you think (it's working in all of us, in all of our decisions and actions). Go with what you KNOW you're comfortable with.
Oh, and for the record, I highly doubt the Evo 5 MS will pull towards the side on the straight. Maezumi-san hiimself said there is no torque steer with a 23T or down to a 17.5 brushless, and from the way he drove, I believe him
- Paulie
09-05-2008, 12:42 PM
#32
My EVO IV is built to MS spec and is raced with a 27T Cobalt on tarmac, I use a front diff. I am as fast or faster than the belt cars in my class including 415's and TC5's. I am very comfortable with the EVO IV as I was with the EVO III S.E. using 19T and stock motors. Stick to the chassis type that is easiest for you to drive 
My 2 cents
-Rob
My 2 cents
-Rob
09-06-2008, 06:43 AM
#35
Paul...just decide already.
I want that TA05R that we talked about.
I want that TA05R that we talked about.
09-16-2008, 03:18 PM
#37
Tech Apprentice
hi, i raced at the tamiya worlds last november, im sure the the 23t was the masters class..at that time the trf boys, marc,victor were there with the 416's..which went well...at the time time the car that kicked ass in all the qualy's was a TA05 ifs...the guy was awsome with that car..marc and victor came good in the finals but this guy with the IFS gave em a run for their money...i raced in GT3700 class with my 415msxx but it was the shaft driven car that was the car to beat...seeing how the 416 went in the end i would still go with the 416...any lower than 23t i would go shaft drive without doubt..
09-16-2008, 11:37 PM
#38
Great info, thanks!
I've been a little quiet in this thread because I'm waiting for the rules to come out for next season. Look like they might allow hard case Lipo's and 19T motors this coming season, but it's still up in the air.
I'll know which I'm faster with (shaft or belt) this Sunday when I'm gonna test the TB03...
- Paulie
I've been a little quiet in this thread because I'm waiting for the rules to come out for next season. Look like they might allow hard case Lipo's and 19T motors this coming season, but it's still up in the air.
I'll know which I'm faster with (shaft or belt) this Sunday when I'm gonna test the TB03...
- Paulie
09-17-2008, 04:55 AM
#39
I have both kits....It depeneds on the Track size which kit I will run.
I will say that I run the same or quicker time with the 5MS.
The 5MS transition is much more quicker than the TRF416 and it can be a very direct with the trigger.
Its not ideal for 21/17/13.5 brushless motors due to the Aluminum plate makes it hard to put larger pinion gears on the kit. This can me be modded but the car is faster with a brush motor in terms gearing stock motors.
The 5MS is very rear grippy so one-way becomes very easy to drive once the tires get warm. I use a spool on my 5MS, because in the USA from what I understand rubbing is racing, one-ways don't like that no matter how much grip there is.
Go with the 5MS if you can find one for it is limited, Tamiya will always product a Belt Kit for their Team Racers. And as you saw and stated a the Shaft kit can run with belts them if not Beat'em.
It shouldn't take a Pro to show people a Shaft kit is just as competitive as a Belt.
Good luck
I will say that I run the same or quicker time with the 5MS.
The 5MS transition is much more quicker than the TRF416 and it can be a very direct with the trigger.
Its not ideal for 21/17/13.5 brushless motors due to the Aluminum plate makes it hard to put larger pinion gears on the kit. This can me be modded but the car is faster with a brush motor in terms gearing stock motors.
The 5MS is very rear grippy so one-way becomes very easy to drive once the tires get warm. I use a spool on my 5MS, because in the USA from what I understand rubbing is racing, one-ways don't like that no matter how much grip there is.
Go with the 5MS if you can find one for it is limited, Tamiya will always product a Belt Kit for their Team Racers. And as you saw and stated a the Shaft kit can run with belts them if not Beat'em.
It shouldn't take a Pro to show people a Shaft kit is just as competitive as a Belt.
Good luck
Last edited by m3ndo5a; 09-17-2008 at 04:09 PM.
09-17-2008, 07:05 AM
#40
I have both kits....It depeneds on the Track size which kit I will run.
I will say that I run the same or quicker time with the 5MS.
The 5MS transition is much more quicker than the TRF416 and it can be a very direct with the trigger.
Its not ideal for 21/17/13.5 brushless motors due to the Aluminum plate makes it hard to put larger pinion gears on the kit. This can me be modded but the car is faster with a brush motor in terms gearing stock motors.
The 5MS is very rear grippy so one-way becomes very easy to drive once the tires get warm. I use a spool on my 5MS, because in the USA from what I understand rubbing is racing, one-ways don't like that no matter how much grip there is.
Go with the 5MS if you can find one for it is limited, Tamiya will always product a Belt Kit for their Team Racers. And as you saw and stated a the Shaft kit can run with belts them if not Beat'em.
It shouldn't take a Pro to show people a Shaft kit is just a competitive as a Belt.
Good luck
I will say that I run the same or quicker time with the 5MS.
The 5MS transition is much more quicker than the TRF416 and it can be a very direct with the trigger.
Its not ideal for 21/17/13.5 brushless motors due to the Aluminum plate makes it hard to put larger pinion gears on the kit. This can me be modded but the car is faster with a brush motor in terms gearing stock motors.
The 5MS is very rear grippy so one-way becomes very easy to drive once the tires get warm. I use a spool on my 5MS, because in the USA from what I understand rubbing is racing, one-ways don't like that no matter how much grip there is.
Go with the 5MS if you can find one for it is limited, Tamiya will always product a Belt Kit for their Team Racers. And as you saw and stated a the Shaft kit can run with belts them if not Beat'em.
It shouldn't take a Pro to show people a Shaft kit is just a competitive as a Belt.
Good luck
If they change the club racing rules next season and allow hard case Lipo's and 19T motors, do you still think the 5MS would be good on a tarmac track with rubber tires, would the belt driven 416 be a better option at that point?
- Paulie
09-17-2008, 04:09 PM
#41
5MS will work great with a 19t motor/10.5 with lipo. Basicly that what I ran in TCS Amain second seat this year. The kit handle very well for the first time on a track.
You cannot go wrong with either Kit but most would say the 416 mod or stock racing.
You cannot go wrong with either Kit but most would say the 416 mod or stock racing.
09-17-2008, 10:44 PM
#42
Sweet! Thanks!
I'm not sure how long the 5MS will be available, but I think if my test with eh 23T and TB03 goes well, I may just have to pick one up.
Although, I did hear about a 416 World Chamion Edition coming out...
Anyone know the specs on that kit?
- Paulie
I'm not sure how long the 5MS will be available, but I think if my test with eh 23T and TB03 goes well, I may just have to pick one up.
Although, I did hear about a 416 World Chamion Edition coming out...
Anyone know the specs on that kit?
- Paulie
09-17-2008, 10:52 PM
#43
Tamiyablog lists the following new stuff:
- 1/10 TRF416 World Edition Chassis Kit
- 1/10 F103 Chassis Kit 15th Anniversary
- 1/10 F103RM (w/L-body) (Limited Edition)
- 1/10 Subaru Impreza WRC Monte Carlo'07 (DF-03Ra Chassis)
- 1/10 NISMO R34 GT-R Z tune (TT-01D Chassis)
- 1/10 TB-03D Chassis Kit (drift version of the TB-03 Chassis)
- 1/10 XB Lamborghini Countach LP500S (TT-01E) (XB version of # 58413)
- 3.5T / 6.5T / 7.5T Brushless Motors
- Brushless Speed Controller
- High-performance charger (tentative description)
- 24A stabilised Power Supply
- Aluminum Servo Horn for High-Torque Servo Saver (M-Chassis)
Looks like they may enbrace brushless soon ?!
- 1/10 TRF416 World Edition Chassis Kit
- 1/10 F103 Chassis Kit 15th Anniversary
- 1/10 F103RM (w/L-body) (Limited Edition)
- 1/10 Subaru Impreza WRC Monte Carlo'07 (DF-03Ra Chassis)
- 1/10 NISMO R34 GT-R Z tune (TT-01D Chassis)
- 1/10 TB-03D Chassis Kit (drift version of the TB-03 Chassis)
- 1/10 XB Lamborghini Countach LP500S (TT-01E) (XB version of # 58413)
- 3.5T / 6.5T / 7.5T Brushless Motors
- Brushless Speed Controller
- High-performance charger (tentative description)
- 24A stabilised Power Supply
- Aluminum Servo Horn for High-Torque Servo Saver (M-Chassis)
Looks like they may enbrace brushless soon ?!
09-18-2008, 12:48 AM
#44
Tech Master
seems like I need to start saving money for the holidays!
09-21-2008, 08:52 AM
#45
Well guys, I just got back from the race and the results are in...I'm faster with shaft drive, and I have the hard data to prove it!
It was a long day for sure, but I'll give you the Cliff's Notes...
First off, I should tell you that I have about 6 months track time with a pair of TA05-R's in the 23T class and the GT Tune Class (25T).
As for the TB03, I've only raced twice in the GT Tune Class, and once in the 23T class, which happened today.
Here are the results...
23T Class Data:
TA05-R best lap ever = 19.060
TB03 best lap ever = 19.070
TA05-R average lap = 20.239
TB03 average lap = 19.790
This tells me that I'm much more consistient with the shaft drive, but I did have one good lap in the belt drive car. Again, I've been driving the belts for 6 months, and today was the first time I drove the shaft car in this class. Winner - shaft drive.
GT Tune Class Data:
TA05-R best lap ever = 23.080
TB03 best lap ever = 22.720
Again, I was faster with the shaft drive, but I don't have the average lap times on this one so I can't tell which I'm more consistient with but my guess would be the shaft drive. Winner - shaft drive.
Also things to note between the TA05-R and the TB03...
The TA05-R is a STRONG car. The only thing I've broken on it was a kingpin, and also the screws that hold the gear on the front one-way all but dissapeared when I was driving, leaving me with only 2 wheel drive. This was after racing the car as is for over 6 months.
The TB03 on the other hand likes to eat the teeth on the front one-way gear and on the small gear on the end of the driveshaft that it meshes with. I'm on my 3rd set in only 3 races (but the car has seen some serious abuse in those races). My LHS tells me it's because the gearboxes are made of soft plastic and aren't rigid enough. Good thing Tamiya is releasing carbon reinforced versions in the coming month or so. That may help cure the issue.
He also said the TB EVO 5 MS doesn't have that problem because the gearboxes are aluminum. Awesome! Since that's the case, and I'm faster with shaft drive based on the above numbers, I went ahead and had him hold the TB EVO 5 MS for me. I pick it up next week. The out-the-door price was $405. Not too shabby considering what it comes with. It even has a front one-way already in the kit. I don't have to buy ANY hop-ups except for the Titianium screw kit, which I had him order today.
Hell, the hop-upped TB03 I have cost me like $350, so considering what I'm getting, this is a steal!
I'm excited, cause this will be my first ever carbon chassis car!!!
So there you have it folks...in my case with identical conditions, components, tires, batteries, course layout, etc, I am in fact faster with the shaft driven TB03. I always thought I was faster with a shafty, and now I can prove it.
TB EVO 5 MS here I come!!!
- Paulie
It was a long day for sure, but I'll give you the Cliff's Notes...
First off, I should tell you that I have about 6 months track time with a pair of TA05-R's in the 23T class and the GT Tune Class (25T).
As for the TB03, I've only raced twice in the GT Tune Class, and once in the 23T class, which happened today.
Here are the results...
23T Class Data:
TA05-R best lap ever = 19.060
TB03 best lap ever = 19.070
TA05-R average lap = 20.239
TB03 average lap = 19.790
This tells me that I'm much more consistient with the shaft drive, but I did have one good lap in the belt drive car. Again, I've been driving the belts for 6 months, and today was the first time I drove the shaft car in this class. Winner - shaft drive.
GT Tune Class Data:
TA05-R best lap ever = 23.080
TB03 best lap ever = 22.720
Again, I was faster with the shaft drive, but I don't have the average lap times on this one so I can't tell which I'm more consistient with but my guess would be the shaft drive. Winner - shaft drive.
Also things to note between the TA05-R and the TB03...
The TA05-R is a STRONG car. The only thing I've broken on it was a kingpin, and also the screws that hold the gear on the front one-way all but dissapeared when I was driving, leaving me with only 2 wheel drive. This was after racing the car as is for over 6 months.
The TB03 on the other hand likes to eat the teeth on the front one-way gear and on the small gear on the end of the driveshaft that it meshes with. I'm on my 3rd set in only 3 races (but the car has seen some serious abuse in those races). My LHS tells me it's because the gearboxes are made of soft plastic and aren't rigid enough. Good thing Tamiya is releasing carbon reinforced versions in the coming month or so. That may help cure the issue.
He also said the TB EVO 5 MS doesn't have that problem because the gearboxes are aluminum. Awesome! Since that's the case, and I'm faster with shaft drive based on the above numbers, I went ahead and had him hold the TB EVO 5 MS for me. I pick it up next week. The out-the-door price was $405. Not too shabby considering what it comes with. It even has a front one-way already in the kit. I don't have to buy ANY hop-ups except for the Titianium screw kit, which I had him order today.
Hell, the hop-upped TB03 I have cost me like $350, so considering what I'm getting, this is a steal!
I'm excited, cause this will be my first ever carbon chassis car!!!
So there you have it folks...in my case with identical conditions, components, tires, batteries, course layout, etc, I am in fact faster with the shaft driven TB03. I always thought I was faster with a shafty, and now I can prove it.
TB EVO 5 MS here I come!!!
- Paulie