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Old 06-05-2008, 12:02 PM   #151
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How about some way to train new drivers? there were plenty of days when I needed 3 c-hubs, a new body and new tires from my lack of control when I started. I know many people never make it past that point.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:04 PM   #152
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I dont think its so much the cost of the car / chassis as it is the perceived total cost of the hobby that scares many away. When someone new is considering starting racing, they dont necessarily know the difference in cost of one chassis to another. But when they walk by a pit table and see mounds of cars / parts / electronics ect. 2-3 spots wide that is allowed by some tracks to rent space or leave, most people will take one look and say, "I dont want to spend that kinda $$". And when someone tries to convince them all that is not necessary, the first thing that likely will come to mind is, ya...if ever winning isn't necessary.

This very same issue almost drove me away before I got started, and I make very good $$ at my day job. Out of prob. 10 new people I see asking questions and interested, I'll bet 1 doesnt stay long enough to really give it a try.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:20 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
Except for the last 10 years we have been doing touring cars. In the last 10 years touring cars turned from a nice converted 4wd buggy asphalt racer with a large suspension to race in unprepared parking lots into awesome speed demons that have as many, if not more adjustments than an F1 car and requires an engineering degree to fully comprehend everything that can be adjusted.

You say that you want something that is simple and that will reduce costs. Then you fully discount a serious answer when it is handed to you. Is it because it wasn't your idea? Or is it because you never liked pan cars when they were popular 10 years ago? Is it because pan cars use foam tires, or because they use Nimh batteries? Is it because we will be racing these cars with realistic body shells and getting away from the generic bars of soap we are running in sedan now? I'm just curious why you think pan cars aren't the solution.

Why are you getting so personal?

I had a 1/10 pan car the first time they were popular, and loved it! And back then we ran 6 cells and mod motors. These things were rocket ships! Well, not compared to today's car. Typically we ran 14 turn motors. We ran them at RC World in Queens, and American Raceway in Englishtown, NJ. And we had a good time running at American Raceway on Saturday nights. It looked like a scaled down LeMans.

But even back then the class never really got the big support like 1/12 did. There was no TC yet. People always talked about getting one, but only a few of us did. I think we saw about 3 seasons where the 1/10 cars were run, but went away after that. Mostly because TC was just coming about.

Today I see the same thing. People talk about them, but only a few actually get them. And we're not talking about new racers. These are the same racers just looking for another class to run. It's the same as it was the first time. The lony difference are the more realistic currently used, and let's see how long that lasts. And more realistic bodies is something I've been fighting for in TC for a long time.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:20 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Why are you getting so personal?
Because your answers and comments are so vague and raised a lot of questions. I want to know where you really stand, being an elected official in ROAR region 1. I want to know if I need to find someone else to fill your shoes to vote for.

That was a much better response. Personal? I like my hobby, and I want to know what the people in charge are lobbying for and why. It can eventually affect me. Why in the public forum that is RC Tech? Because it started here.

Sorry if you feel like your in the spot light... It goes with the job.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:39 PM   #155
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Electric will slowly come back in time. The technology has finally caught up and has the runtime and power without the maintenance, something nitro has had for some time over electric. Now you can run your 2wd buggy with a 13.5 and a lipo for 45 minutes.

I think that the mains should be extended to 10 or 15 minutes in brushless. The cars and powertrain are capable and it's time to take advantage of it. Nitro cars are harder for the average person to get started in as most fear of blowing up there new toy.

We run 10 minute mains at my local track and it's a blast. No longer is electric a 5 minute sprint where a single mistake can cost you the race. It adds strategy back into racing. Remember when we had to GEAR our cars to make the 4 minute main!?!? I do. You could have a really fast car but dnf simply because you blew your battery out. This is where Nitro again has had electric covered. Pit strategy, tire strategy, driving strategy.

Bring electric back where it belongs, in the front. Simple changes will effect the hobby subtly and will be easy on the everyone. Make the rules easy to understand and enforce them. Look to real racing for model ideas.

Keep using spec tires, handout motors, and make the racing about being the fastest driver with the best skills not just the one with the most $$ and support.
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:04 PM   #156
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I think that Electric TC took a BIG hit with the Technology that came all to fast and at one time.

You had, Lipo, Brushless coming from 10 different angles. It was/is hard for the old timers to accept "NEW" tech. Much less the new guy asking one question at the local track and getting 20 different answers.

Add to that the fact that that there really were no rules kinnda divided the "old" vs "NEW" at the local level. Then this was played heavily on the new guys that may have wanted to buy something but ended up looking like a deer in the headlights.

Then on top of that did you buy 13.5 or 17.5, Lipo or NIMH to run in your tracks stk. class?

Then with the fact that after buying a new motor/ battery, 4-5 months down the line would they even be legal!

I know I have bought 3 different brushless motors..none are now legal! LOL

Then came the NEW Global spec body deal, something that was gonna be "all NEW" in some ppls eyes. So maybe they held off on buying until the new bodies we out so they only had to buy those ONCE?!?!?

Coupled with the fact that tires started to be no where to be seen...and I can understand why Electric TC racing died off just a bit.

But now with Roar having some solid rules for Lipo,brushless, and the Global Spec bodies being a none issuse and with some other tire companies joining in.....

I see Electric TC growing to what we had a few years ago.

And adding the "pro 10" class into the mix just makes it that much better....
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:35 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
Because your answers and comments are so vague and raised a lot of questions. I want to know where you really stand, being an elected official in ROAR region 1. I want to know if I need to find someone else to fill your shoes to vote for.

That was a much better response. Personal? I like my hobby, and I want to know what the people in charge are lobbying for and why. It can eventually affect me. Why in the public forum that is RC Tech? Because it started here.

Sorry if you feel like your in the spot light... It goes with the job.
I have no problem with the spotlight. I love this hobby, perhaps to a fault. This thread was started to provide suggestions to the ExComm for rules going forward.

I have seen too many cases where the seriousness of racing has pushed racers out of the hobby. Most complain of the cost, but the real reason is they weren't having fun any more. I hear too many stories of guys going to their local track just trying to get some laps in when one of the "pro guys" plows into them at the end of the straight, then the pro guy complains he was in the way! That's the point where they pack up, go home, and never go back. The next week you hear "Gee, why doesn't anyone come racing any more?"

My suggestion for rubber tire in touring car (and touring car only) comes from the fact that many racers at 360 Speedway (my local track) are switching to rubber and love it. I know Mike Haynes prefers it because it's more of a driving challenge than foam tire.

Look, I'm going to fight for what I believe will make the hobby better for everybody, not just the handful of racers that are trying to make the big time.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:34 PM   #158
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I "ACTUALLY" agree with Jim on the foam tire issue (imagine that) especially on carpet. Rubber tires lower the cost of racing by about 1000% for a club race enviroment. I dont think a ban is the solution. But foam should be more of an open type of class and direct drive..1/12 etc.

One can actually run a 250$ (say a ta05r) car or in the case of Mr Raffaelli a 80$ (tt01) and actually be competitive on rubber tires. Hobby shop can actually sell ready to runs that can be raced out of the box. In today generation of video game players/instant satisfaction this is very important to attract new people. Brushless motors and lipo batteries will also help in this area

You see this in the popularity of the 1/18 scale stuff at madness. If you ever have the time head down to madness on a friday night just to check it out...it is insane. The turnout is huge. Racing actually generates sales...go figure..and can actually be profitable for a hobby shop.

If we dont get new racers more tracks and hobby shops will close. You can see the trend across the country based on info on the forums

Foam tires have pushed touring car in the direction of 1/8 onroad.

I race both and dont spend much more on 1/8 onroad stuff that is including tires! That is an huge problem for club racing and newbies.

What finally pushed me over the edge on this issue was actually running 1/8 onroad, watching a friday night mini race at madness, and attending a race at tt minisport in NY (focus on tamiya 540 can racing).

Onroad racing has gone in the wrong direction this has caused a massive decrease in turnout and an increase in hobby shop and track closures.

I dont have a solution just an observation.

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Old 06-10-2008, 06:21 AM   #159
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Club racing and to be honest racing in general will only survive if there is newbies getting started and sticking with it. For a long time at a local track we had a good group of new racers on a regular basis with the majority running the t-spec cars. As bad as they where parts wise they where fairly cheap cars. The t-spec's dissapeared and soon after that the newbies dissapeared and a few years later on road is almost non existant at this track coincidence maybee but I dont think so although the only thing keeping on road semi active is a mini cooper class that seems to draw in some newbies and the cost of this class IMO is why...hopefully this keeps it going.
Theres no doubt cost has kept a lot of guys from giving racing a shot and even the ones that do from staying with it. Initial cost is way more then it ever was as the cars themselves have gotten more expensive but over all cost over time has gotten better by far with lipo and brushless along with rubber tires but you have to "bait the hook" to get a perspective new racer in the door and with start up cost what they are and the current economic status that isnt happening.
I have seen some tracks with realy good spec classes IE speed spec cars and they seem to be able to retain the racers either by keeping a newbie or just having a class that even a guy thats been racing for years but can longer afford to race in the more expensive classes can fall back on when cost get to be to much and wants to continue racing.
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:58 AM   #160
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Electric is getting bigger in Socal as far as grass roots racing goes....
The parking lot race I went to sunday had about 60 entries and most of the new guys were running a brushless and lipo package with the actual kits ranging from tub to graphite double decker sedans....
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:04 PM   #161
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Our track survives without a hobby shop because we offer more than just 1 hobby. Our park has 2 paved runways, a grass runway, paved oval course with road course in it, plus our off-road track.

Our racing #s are down, but this is because are track is currently at a size that isn't suitable for 1/8th scale racing. This fall next spring we plan on doubling the size of the track and doing something along the lines of SWRC down in Rock Springs where they built in a short course and a long course.

Outside of that, I think ROAR should look at somehow entering a partnership with the AMA. Since our club came about we've had a visit from somebody in AMA every year to check out our club offer advice, etc. Also, AMA offers a full blown magazine that is much more comprehensive then the old ROAR newsletter. Perhaps ROAR should look at that. Additionally their insurance program is much more comprehensive and new hobbyist friendly. Their insurance also covers all RC, not just flying.

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