8LikesCRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks
09-29-2009, 01:46 PM
#1216
Slotracer 577- We had one Losi shock on a Gen X 10 with the oversize collar like yours. I am hoping you e-mailed CRC for the correct part. We made a temporary substitution as well. This Battle Axe center shock is in good shape. I am not sure what you mean by getting loose with time, as I have run one for a long time with no troubles on the Gen X 10. It is a very nicely made and finished shock. I set my droop to about 3 mm by moving the shock center mount back a bit.
That extra right angle tape strap on the battery makes all the difference in the world when you take a hit from the side.
Battle Axe Buildup continues
There is a nice platform aft of the battery tray for your speed control. Even with the stock side plates I had some interference with the screw that mounts the outer ball stud. I decided to countersink that screw and use a flat head screw from the bottom to relieve pressure on the heat sink from the button head screw. Later I decided to use the extended side plates. These will put the body posts on the shoulder of the car rather than up through the roof for a more rigid body mounting. I put a hole to mount the body post beside the speed control and it fit well there, but it did not match the body post on the other side and it was a little close to the edge of the body. I moved that fat little cap several places and decided to put it on top of the speed control. On the side it would tend to bulge the body out a bit and increase your drag. The LRP SXX speed control is ideal. I should be able to use it without a fan. It has the fat 12 gauge wires that are ideal for stock. I also took care to use short runs of this fat wire for the lowest possible loss of millivolfts from the battery.
Squaring the car
After assembly, it is good to square the car out. This is good for onroad as well. That is: make the width of the left and right the same. Insure there is no rear steer. I first took a ruler and measured from the outer edge of the rear tire to the tiny center hole in the back of the pod. I added three shims to the gear side of the axle to make it 100mm. I had used 3 shims on the left side to keep the hub from rubbing the pod. Rear width was now 200 mm. I put the car on the setup board backed up against an edge. I had slight rear steer, but my used tires were not quite the same size. This means the center of the front of the car was slightly to the left of my center line. I was close enough. Reasons this might be off include a damaged side link, a loose or damaged side link ball, the rear is not the same width left and right.
I'll say this again, I am not a fan of those Aluminum pivot balls. I had one break in half just moving the shock at an angle to pop it off after one end was popped off. Replace them with Losi steel ball nuts (female ballstuds) from the JRXS. Also, I think the Associated RC10R5 has steel ball nuts (they look like steel). A set of these is rather pricey at $18.00, though. I have replaced the high stress ball nuts on the frame of this car as well as the center pivot ball with steel pieces. The center pivot steel ball is available from Associated and Hyperdrive.
Bump Steer
The car is squared up nice, now the front end. I set caster at 4 degrees to start with. I set camber at -1.5 on the right front. I will reset the left front to positive 1. Bump steer is perfect with the steering balls on the servo running from the back of the servo horn and one hole up from the bottom on this medium Kimbrough Servo Saver for Hitec. I will recheck this after I raise the car up a bit or I may just use bigger front tires. You check bumpsteer by pushing up on the kingpin and watching the axle (tire off). If the axle changes angle, steers, then you have bump steer. A little bump steer out is OK.
I put on the biggest gear I had which is a 60\34. I'll see how that runs. I put a couple of the supplied 3/16 axle shims inside of the front wheels to make sure the bearings outer race does not rub. I note that the suspension mounting holes are a bit narrower on the battle axe than the Gen X 10. A new drilling template will be forthcoming for the Battle axe to mount the dual A-arm front suspension. There seems to be plenty of graphite in the proper places for the new holes.
I am using the stock springs and oil to start with.
Front suspension mounting plates are in the middle holes side to side and fore and aft. Width at the front is at 194 mm.
Left Rear Down Tweak
If you have corner weight scales or a pair of scales for the back end you can set your left rear down tweak or left rear preload. Put the back tires on the scales, the front tires on a beam. Add preload by turning the right rear shock collar inward until the left side is maybe 10 ounces heavier then the right. You will make further adjustments to this at the track once you see how its driving. Part of this is done by having weight left in the car. The left rear down tweak will do two things. It will take away some steering (not so good) and it will make the car exit the corner straight (good if you are having a problem with corner exit). I suspect that the car will have little problem on corner exit because of the large gear and the stock motor. We will see.
A few nice aftermarket additions
CRC extended side plates
GFR Red aluminum base body posts. I like these a lot for their appearance and the ability to microadjust the length with the body on. I prefer body pins though and drill them now. A silver set is available predrilled for body pins. Lefthander-rc.com
CRC Red Aluminum Caster Blocks. Super nicely machined on six sides. Beautiful to look at. Work great.
SRC shortie bumper and mounting kit (available shortly)
Associated TC3 axle nut for diff adjustment.
That extra right angle tape strap on the battery makes all the difference in the world when you take a hit from the side.
Battle Axe Buildup continues
There is a nice platform aft of the battery tray for your speed control. Even with the stock side plates I had some interference with the screw that mounts the outer ball stud. I decided to countersink that screw and use a flat head screw from the bottom to relieve pressure on the heat sink from the button head screw. Later I decided to use the extended side plates. These will put the body posts on the shoulder of the car rather than up through the roof for a more rigid body mounting. I put a hole to mount the body post beside the speed control and it fit well there, but it did not match the body post on the other side and it was a little close to the edge of the body. I moved that fat little cap several places and decided to put it on top of the speed control. On the side it would tend to bulge the body out a bit and increase your drag. The LRP SXX speed control is ideal. I should be able to use it without a fan. It has the fat 12 gauge wires that are ideal for stock. I also took care to use short runs of this fat wire for the lowest possible loss of millivolfts from the battery.
Squaring the car
After assembly, it is good to square the car out. This is good for onroad as well. That is: make the width of the left and right the same. Insure there is no rear steer. I first took a ruler and measured from the outer edge of the rear tire to the tiny center hole in the back of the pod. I added three shims to the gear side of the axle to make it 100mm. I had used 3 shims on the left side to keep the hub from rubbing the pod. Rear width was now 200 mm. I put the car on the setup board backed up against an edge. I had slight rear steer, but my used tires were not quite the same size. This means the center of the front of the car was slightly to the left of my center line. I was close enough. Reasons this might be off include a damaged side link, a loose or damaged side link ball, the rear is not the same width left and right.
I'll say this again, I am not a fan of those Aluminum pivot balls. I had one break in half just moving the shock at an angle to pop it off after one end was popped off. Replace them with Losi steel ball nuts (female ballstuds) from the JRXS. Also, I think the Associated RC10R5 has steel ball nuts (they look like steel). A set of these is rather pricey at $18.00, though. I have replaced the high stress ball nuts on the frame of this car as well as the center pivot ball with steel pieces. The center pivot steel ball is available from Associated and Hyperdrive.
Bump Steer
The car is squared up nice, now the front end. I set caster at 4 degrees to start with. I set camber at -1.5 on the right front. I will reset the left front to positive 1. Bump steer is perfect with the steering balls on the servo running from the back of the servo horn and one hole up from the bottom on this medium Kimbrough Servo Saver for Hitec. I will recheck this after I raise the car up a bit or I may just use bigger front tires. You check bumpsteer by pushing up on the kingpin and watching the axle (tire off). If the axle changes angle, steers, then you have bump steer. A little bump steer out is OK.
I put on the biggest gear I had which is a 60\34. I'll see how that runs. I put a couple of the supplied 3/16 axle shims inside of the front wheels to make sure the bearings outer race does not rub. I note that the suspension mounting holes are a bit narrower on the battle axe than the Gen X 10. A new drilling template will be forthcoming for the Battle axe to mount the dual A-arm front suspension. There seems to be plenty of graphite in the proper places for the new holes.
I am using the stock springs and oil to start with.
Front suspension mounting plates are in the middle holes side to side and fore and aft. Width at the front is at 194 mm.
Left Rear Down Tweak
If you have corner weight scales or a pair of scales for the back end you can set your left rear down tweak or left rear preload. Put the back tires on the scales, the front tires on a beam. Add preload by turning the right rear shock collar inward until the left side is maybe 10 ounces heavier then the right. You will make further adjustments to this at the track once you see how its driving. Part of this is done by having weight left in the car. The left rear down tweak will do two things. It will take away some steering (not so good) and it will make the car exit the corner straight (good if you are having a problem with corner exit). I suspect that the car will have little problem on corner exit because of the large gear and the stock motor. We will see.
A few nice aftermarket additions
CRC extended side plates
GFR Red aluminum base body posts. I like these a lot for their appearance and the ability to microadjust the length with the body on. I prefer body pins though and drill them now. A silver set is available predrilled for body pins. Lefthander-rc.com
CRC Red Aluminum Caster Blocks. Super nicely machined on six sides. Beautiful to look at. Work great.
SRC shortie bumper and mounting kit (available shortly)
Associated TC3 axle nut for diff adjustment.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-29-2009 at 02:01 PM.
09-29-2009, 02:15 PM
#1217
Setting Left Down Tweak with scales.
This is a continuation of the new post above.
It is set at about 10 ounces now. Note the position of the right side shock collar. I have preloaded the left rear.
This is a continuation of the new post above.
It is set at about 10 ounces now. Note the position of the right side shock collar. I have preloaded the left rear.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-29-2009 at 03:32 PM.
09-30-2009, 04:54 PM
#1219
Track Test Battle Axe 2.0 17.5/2s Lipo
91F. Track Temp 120F.
I wanted to run some oval on the new asphalt at Mike-HobbyShop.com
It was easy to set up the oval on the end of the new layout like before. I wanted to see if there were some differences in the way the car handled vs on the sealed asphalt that we treated with sugar water. Well there was a difference. I did not have to treat it with sugar water. I had medium traction from the beginning.
I started on purple right front, pink left front
CRC World GT spec Rears. Why this tire. Now I am not new to this piece of asphalt. I have been running pan cars with motors from 10.5 to 3.5 on it since it was layed down. What I have discovered by trieal and error is that this tire that is just a little harder than pink (maybe a shore 38) gives me better cornering traction and forward traction than pinks or magentas.
It works very similar to a BSR XXpink and is made by BSR, I am told. You are silly not to try the tire just because the tire is cheaper.
Anyway the tire did not disappoint on the oval the rear end was strapped mid corner. It was a wise decision by CRC not to offset the pod lefton this center link side pivot car. My 3-link was similarly strapped in the back.
The 17.5 2s LiPo is actually very similar in speed to the 13.5/4 cell I ran previously. You just eliminate the NiMH from the equation. That is a good thing. This means also that there was enough power and punch to have corner exit issues. The nose tended to head to the inside board on corner exit. I can drive a lot faster when the nose heads toward the correct line instead so I took remedies. First I notice the car has ability to offset the front end in tiny increments. I move the right side one increment right and the left side one increment right. I added slightly more left down tweak by rotating in the right side shock collar one full turn. Perfect. Now notice I am not setting up a champions car. I never claimed to be one. I am setting up a club racers car, which is what I am, so that it is easy to drive mistake free in a club race. If you don't like this setting than just don't use it. Don't criticize it if you have not even tried it. Yes moving the front end to the right is adding a small amount of left rear steer.
Problems that remain, on a single car practice day. Not quite enough steering to maneuver around traffic. Plenty to maintain a good line. This may be solved by going to a CRC spec right front on dusty practice days.
91F. Track Temp 120F.
I wanted to run some oval on the new asphalt at Mike-HobbyShop.com
It was easy to set up the oval on the end of the new layout like before. I wanted to see if there were some differences in the way the car handled vs on the sealed asphalt that we treated with sugar water. Well there was a difference. I did not have to treat it with sugar water. I had medium traction from the beginning.
I started on purple right front, pink left front
CRC World GT spec Rears. Why this tire. Now I am not new to this piece of asphalt. I have been running pan cars with motors from 10.5 to 3.5 on it since it was layed down. What I have discovered by trieal and error is that this tire that is just a little harder than pink (maybe a shore 38) gives me better cornering traction and forward traction than pinks or magentas.
It works very similar to a BSR XXpink and is made by BSR, I am told. You are silly not to try the tire just because the tire is cheaper.
Anyway the tire did not disappoint on the oval the rear end was strapped mid corner. It was a wise decision by CRC not to offset the pod lefton this center link side pivot car. My 3-link was similarly strapped in the back.
The 17.5 2s LiPo is actually very similar in speed to the 13.5/4 cell I ran previously. You just eliminate the NiMH from the equation. That is a good thing. This means also that there was enough power and punch to have corner exit issues. The nose tended to head to the inside board on corner exit. I can drive a lot faster when the nose heads toward the correct line instead so I took remedies. First I notice the car has ability to offset the front end in tiny increments. I move the right side one increment right and the left side one increment right. I added slightly more left down tweak by rotating in the right side shock collar one full turn. Perfect. Now notice I am not setting up a champions car. I never claimed to be one. I am setting up a club racers car, which is what I am, so that it is easy to drive mistake free in a club race. If you don't like this setting than just don't use it. Don't criticize it if you have not even tried it. Yes moving the front end to the right is adding a small amount of left rear steer.
Problems that remain, on a single car practice day. Not quite enough steering to maneuver around traffic. Plenty to maintain a good line. This may be solved by going to a CRC spec right front on dusty practice days.
10-04-2009, 11:20 AM
#1220
Battle Axe 2.0
An item I left undone. On a car that uses battery tape, you need to bevel the edges of the tape slots. Otherwise they are as sharp as scissors and will tend too cut your tape. I have a small crew of racers assembled to continue testing.
This minimized left side pod plate is now available. It does not fit the earlier pod bottom plate. An all new CRC bottom plate is needed but not quite available yet. The SRC/PRC heavy duty pod bottom plate will accept this part and will be available very soon along with shortie bumpers, I am told. They are already cut.
An item I left undone. On a car that uses battery tape, you need to bevel the edges of the tape slots. Otherwise they are as sharp as scissors and will tend too cut your tape. I have a small crew of racers assembled to continue testing.
This minimized left side pod plate is now available. It does not fit the earlier pod bottom plate. An all new CRC bottom plate is needed but not quite available yet. The SRC/PRC heavy duty pod bottom plate will accept this part and will be available very soon along with shortie bumpers, I am told. They are already cut.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-16-2009 at 08:43 AM.
10-04-2009, 11:47 AM
#1221
Hi John,
Nice to see you getting on the market with your parts!
I finished up my 1/12 panhard design and ended up dumping the rear vertical shocks. The 1/18th shocks are too bulky to fit underneath a 1/12 body and the 1/32 (I think) ones from Losi are nice but a pain to install cause the mounting holes are extremely small.
Thats why I put the damper tubes under an angle so they cope with vertical movement as well, this is not perfect, but most indoor tracks arent very bumpy and I'm guessing I can get away with it.
Chassis is made for A123 2300mAh cells but will also fit 1S lipo packs up till maximum Roar spec.
But, usually pictures say more than me typing and getting my RSI back...
Nice to see you getting on the market with your parts!
I finished up my 1/12 panhard design and ended up dumping the rear vertical shocks. The 1/18th shocks are too bulky to fit underneath a 1/12 body and the 1/32 (I think) ones from Losi are nice but a pain to install cause the mounting holes are extremely small.
Thats why I put the damper tubes under an angle so they cope with vertical movement as well, this is not perfect, but most indoor tracks arent very bumpy and I'm guessing I can get away with it.
Chassis is made for A123 2300mAh cells but will also fit 1S lipo packs up till maximum Roar spec.
But, usually pictures say more than me typing and getting my RSI back...
10-04-2009, 05:29 PM
#1222
Hi John
I ordered some nerf wings for my gen x 10 last week from doug . He said you were tweeking the design & they would ship shortly . I was wondering if you are done with the changes ?. Thank you
I ordered some nerf wings for my gen x 10 last week from doug . He said you were tweeking the design & they would ship shortly . I was wondering if you are done with the changes ?. Thank you
10-05-2009, 07:50 PM
#1223
In cutting out my body I have followed all the cut lines outlined but the manufacture. In viewing the other racers cars at the track it seems like every one of the fast guys have cut above this line only in the rear area of the car.
Why do they cut out the rear of the car completely or almost upto the top deck is it simply for aesthetic reasons?
Why do they cut out the rear of the car completely or almost upto the top deck is it simply for aesthetic reasons?
Last edited by Capt'N_Slow; 10-05-2009 at 08:31 PM.
10-05-2009, 09:02 PM
#1224
In cutting out my body I have followed all the cut lines outlined but the manufacture. In viewing the other racers cars at the track it seems like every one of the fast guys have cut above this line only in the rear area of the car.
Why do they cut out the rear of the car completely or almost upto the top deck is it simply for aesthetic reasons?
Why do they cut out the rear of the car completely or almost upto the top deck is it simply for aesthetic reasons?
Cutting the back out of the body allows the aerodynamics of the car to create a low preasure zone under the car body. This basicly creates downforce without the drag.
Shawn.
10-05-2009, 10:24 PM
#1225
Rear Body Cutout. I might as well post a rebuttal. Shawn is exactly correct. That is why guys cut the back of the body out. It is very traditional on the oval as well.
Now what I did is, I put a 1-10 wide pan GTP body and car on a wind tunnel with wind about 16 mph. I put a little hand held wind meter (anemometer) that has a small propeller and moved it around various places to look at air flow. Air does come out the back but almost all is below the chassis and pod. Center top the air flows under and into the body if you have it cut. Not that fast but constant. Top over the wheels the air is fairly stagnant and reverses directions often.
That done, I don't cut the back out so high any more and my bodies last longer.
Dirk-Very nice. How soon till you drive it and give us a report.
Now what I did is, I put a 1-10 wide pan GTP body and car on a wind tunnel with wind about 16 mph. I put a little hand held wind meter (anemometer) that has a small propeller and moved it around various places to look at air flow. Air does come out the back but almost all is below the chassis and pod. Center top the air flows under and into the body if you have it cut. Not that fast but constant. Top over the wheels the air is fairly stagnant and reverses directions often.
That done, I don't cut the back out so high any more and my bodies last longer.
Dirk-Very nice. How soon till you drive it and give us a report.
10-05-2009, 10:37 PM
#1226
With some luck this weekend, finished up milling the CF yesterday evening and everything fits up very nice.
Gonna make the assy today so I'll have real life pictures tomorrow.
Edit: The countersink drills worked very well!! no sign of wear at all, just for the front suspension holes I found out yesterday I needed a 100° CS so I recut a big drill to countersink em.
Gonna make the assy today so I'll have real life pictures tomorrow.
Edit: The countersink drills worked very well!! no sign of wear at all, just for the front suspension holes I found out yesterday I needed a 100° CS so I recut a big drill to countersink em.
10-06-2009, 01:13 PM
#1227
And here are the pictures...
10-07-2009, 04:40 PM
#1228
I was looking at the FR end of my GEN x 10 & noticed there are 3 possible width adjustment's i can make . The car was set up in the middle postion when i got it . I would like to know what the advantages or dis adavantages of going wider or narrower ?. This car will be raced on carpet only .
10-07-2009, 06:11 PM
#1229
I was looking at the FR end of my GEN x 10 & noticed there are 3 possible width adjustment's i can make . The car was set up in the middle postion when i got it . I would like to know what the advantages or dis adavantages of going wider or narrower ?. This car will be raced on carpet only .
Well, there is acouple of reasons. By making the front end narrower, it will bite harder coming into the corners, and make the car more loose (more front grip). Making it wider will have the opposite effect. If you find your car traction rolling then making the front wider will help that too.
Another reason you might want to change the width is for body clearance. I found with the optional wide body, I run the rear of the car at 235mm, but the front is closer to 225mm.
Shawn.
10-07-2009, 06:18 PM
#1230
Well, there is acouple of reasons. By making the front end narrower, it will bite harder coming into the corners, and make the car more loose (more front grip). Making it wider will have the opposite effect. If you find your car traction rolling then making the front wider will help that too.
Another reason you might want to change the width is for body clearance. I found with the optional wide body, I run the rear of the car at 235mm, but the front is closer to 225mm.
Shawn.
Another reason you might want to change the width is for body clearance. I found with the optional wide body, I run the rear of the car at 235mm, but the front is closer to 225mm.
Shawn.
I will be running this in WGT 200mm class. this will be my first time with the car . The first race is in november . were would you recomend starting ?.