R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-07-2009, 11:58 AM   #1351
Tech Addict
 
Timmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beautiful North Carolina!
Posts: 706
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Oh and before I forget I wanted to give a big thanks to Kerk on this forum. He saw that I needed a rare part for my evo5MS and bought it in SG for me AND sent it to me for free! I was speechless! Your present from me is on the way TB03 thread members rock!
__________________
:: Serpent America ::Desoto Racing :: Track Star Racer Services ::Skyrocket Racing::TOP::
Timmie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 03:20 PM   #1352
Tech Lord
 
Hebiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 12,919
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarKing View Post
Chris, I would never DQ you.....but if you have trouble in tech, and it prevents you from making your main, well those things happen.

No, I know one will come out eventually, but now is not that time. Trust me, I am excited for it as well.

Still enjoying your MS Chris?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmie View Post
+1001

I finally got mine running again...ready for carpet season
the EvoV MS is THE best car to have in low power motor classes like GT2, RCGT, VTA. improvements over the regular EvoV are so huge (like changing the spur gear). this car is definitely a hidden gem.
__________________
Hebiki Design Works
Custom R/C Vinyl Graphics & Apparel: Your gear, your way!
Web Design - Web Development - Logo Design - Graphic Design
www.facebook.com/HebikiDesignWorks
Hebiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 08:59 PM   #1353
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmie View Post
+1001

I finally got mine running again...ready for carpet season
Great to know your EVO running!!
Getting the part to you is my pleasure. Don't have to mention it.

I suppose anyone who's serious about their TB-03, will eventually get their hands on the EVO 5/ MS.

Probably one of my best buys! Love it!

Cheers!!
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid
kerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 10:46 PM   #1354
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,039
Trader Rating: 4 (83%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerk View Post
Great to know your EVO running!!
Getting the part to you is my pleasure. Don't have to mention it.

I suppose anyone who's serious about their TB-03, will eventually get their hands on the EVO 5/ MS.

Probably one of my best buys! Love it!

Cheers!!
I am thinking of getting one later. The TB-03D is nearly the same thing right? Just a tub chassis and different gearbox? i wonder, do they have a chart to see what parts are compatible with each other?

Maybe it'll get a little cheaper. I have not found a place that sells it below 400 yet. I am happy with my TB-03D though.

Does anyone know if the shocks are 50mm or 55mm? The standard shock size on the TRF shocks/CVA shocks?
DriftWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 07:47 AM   #1355
Tech Initiate
 
Glinzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany, Stuttgart
Posts: 32
Default

Now getting philosophical:

Reading enough about this evo (6) and TB-03(R) hype i still have a question:

Will shaft driven cars ever take the lead again?

I think we are on a good way. But aren't there general physical problems (torque steer e. g.) while running shaft driven cars compared to belt driven cars?

Or did developement a fast step forward to bring shaft driven cars back to the level of of belt driven cars? Torque steer doesn't seem to be a problem anymore after all the mods and improvements a (tamiya) car has received.

I dont't find a conclusion by now.

The general question is: Were they all wrong setting up belt driven systems?

What do you think about this?
Glinzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 09:01 AM   #1356
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glinzo View Post
Now getting philosophical:

Reading enough about this evo (6) and TB-03(R) hype i still have a question:

Will shaft driven cars ever take the lead again?

I think we are on a good way. But aren't there general physical problems (torque steer e. g.) while running shaft driven cars compared to belt driven cars?

Or did developement a fast step forward to bring shaft driven cars back to the level of of belt driven cars? Torque steer doesn't seem to be a problem anymore after all the mods and improvements a (tamiya) car has received.

I dont't find a conclusion by now.

The general question is: Were they all wrong setting up belt driven systems?

What do you think about this?
I might be wrong, but don't 1:1 road cars (e.g. Veyron) also uses prop shaft to drive its front wheels?
I think if we set the corner weights right, it will provide uniform grip between the 2 pairs of tyres. This will yield balanced grip to propel and corner. Coupled with sensible suspension setups, torque steer probably will not be evident or corrupt our shaft cars' excellent performance!

Cheers!!
__________________
K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid
kerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 09:37 AM   #1357
Tech Elite
 
Racecrafter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: RC Mecca
Posts: 4,138
Trader Rating: 25 (96%+)
Default

One of the reasons belt cars don't see torque steer is because of the motor configuration.

Shaft cars have it bad in the effect of rotational torque of the motor being set longitudaly. With the advent of brushless the rotor is much less rotating weight than an armature in a brushed motor so this has helped somewhat.

Alot has changed and will continue to change with LiPos and other improvements. I think we will see alot of changes coming in the next years in regards to chassis designs.


Jimmy Wright
__________________
Jimmy Wright

www.trackstarrc.com ~ www.facebook.com/TrackStarRC ~ Home of the 2x's Stock Nationals Champion TS-Gold & TS-Black tire sauce, TS-1+ lubricants, TS-Precision bearings, XRG Xtreme Racing Grease, Scale Auto Engineering, ElevenTech, WRD2, Carbon 12, Stiff Products
Racecrafter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 11:15 AM   #1358
Tech Elite
 
stitchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,794
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

How long has the Evo MS been out?
__________________
Speedtechhobbies.com
stitchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 12:27 PM   #1359
AWK
Tech Fanatic
 
AWK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 981
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stitchy View Post
How long has the Evo MS been out?
A while now. If you want one, tell your local hobby store. They CAN get one from Tamiya USA. We do have them in stock.
AWK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 01:40 PM   #1360
Tech Addict
 
Timmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beautiful North Carolina!
Posts: 706
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I don't believe in all the talk of torque steer problems with shaft cars in stock to mid power motor class now a days since brushless motors came about. Like Jimmy said, the torque steer problem that people talk about so much with shaft drive is from experience with them back in the day. Try to hold on to a 10turn brush motor in your hands and go full throttle. Then hold a 4 turn brushless and go full throttle....ok you know what, thats a bad idea just take my word for it

When I got back into racing last year, I bought a 416 and then a couple months later I bought a evo5MS. When I switched to shaft drive for 17.5 everyone here said I was nuts, "why are you going to use a shaft car they torque steer blah blah blah" well things have been quite around here about that since I've been "torque steering" around them You just can't beat how smooth and efficient a well build shaft car can be. I believe a lot of people are quick to blame torque steer instead of not driving the car right. You have to be a little smoother with a shaft car because it is so responsive to throttle.
Shaft cars do have some disadvantage with weight placement, but with the right battery its not a issue. With my current lipo, my TB has no tweak.

Shaft cars have made a comeback for sure and I'm glad to see that. Classes like VTA and RCGT have really helped revitalize shaft cars. I like my belt cars too, don't get me wrong,but shaft drive is the bomb I was the only one around my area with a shaft car...but not anymore, and some others I know are talking of getting TB03s soon. 2010 - the year of the shaft
__________________
:: Serpent America ::Desoto Racing :: Track Star Racer Services ::Skyrocket Racing::TOP::
Timmie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 02:03 PM   #1361
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,404
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Actually, the bigger problem with shaft drive was probably the harmonics in the drive train with high power motors. I spoke with someone who worked at Associated, and he told me there were 3 points at which the harmonic affected the cars power from 0-45 mph. Each of the points took more power to overcome, and at least at the time of testing, they couldn't overcome the last point with the equipment they had. Unfortunately for them, whatever HPI was doing with their drive train on the Pro4, they could overcome this last sticking point of harmonics and could hit higher top speeds. That's why Hara won all those races vs. the Tc3 and Tc4.

Obviously, this wasn't really an issue with stock or 19t motors. With those cars, it had more to do with the lack of adjustability in roll centers and width, not to mention the Xray and corally cars being really free in the drive train.

Tamiya seems to have taken all of this in. The TB03 is a great car for the money, and overcomes a lot of these shortcomings.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 04:40 PM   #1362
Tech Addict
 
Timmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beautiful North Carolina!
Posts: 706
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Actually, the bigger problem with shaft drive was probably the harmonics in the drive train with high power motors. I spoke with someone who worked at Associated, and he told me there were 3 points at which the harmonic affected the cars power from 0-45 mph. Each of the points took more power to overcome, and at least at the time of testing, they couldn't overcome the last point with the equipment they had. Unfortunately for them, whatever HPI was doing with their drive train on the Pro4, they could overcome this last sticking point of harmonics and could hit higher top speeds. That's why Hara won all those races vs. the Tc3 and Tc4.

Obviously, this wasn't really an issue with stock or 19t motors. With those cars, it had more to do with the lack of adjustability in roll centers and width, not to mention the Xray and corally cars being really free in the drive train.

Tamiya seems to have taken all of this in. The TB03 is a great car for the money, and overcomes a lot of these shortcomings.
Thats really interesting what you were saying about the harmonics. Did they happen to say exactly what was causing it on the TC3? Just really curious.

I've been thinking about what those points probably were. I would believe the main point of resonance would be the shaft itself and its orbit off the centerline of the shaft at certain rpm. The upgraded driveshaft for the TB03 uses a captured roll pin design on one end that would help out in that area. Eyeballing a TC3 shaft I have, its about 15mm longer than a TB03's shaft. So shaft length could be a part of the tuning frequency. Also with the power of mod motors I'm sure there was flex involved with the shaft. The gear teeth itself on the diff gears would be another point of resonance. The pitch of the gear teeth, gear mesh tightness, number of teeth etc. would change that. The pinion and spur gear could be another one. With shaft drive, resonance from the motor itself could be transfered here and directly to the drivetrain....versus a belt drive that the resonance would be transfered to a point and then absorbed by the belt.

Wish I had a pro4 to look at really close. Anyway enough rambling
__________________
:: Serpent America ::Desoto Racing :: Track Star Racer Services ::Skyrocket Racing::TOP::
Timmie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 05:51 PM   #1363
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,404
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmie View Post
Thats really interesting what you were saying about the harmonics. Did they happen to say exactly what was causing it on the TC3? Just really curious.

I've been thinking about what those points probably were. I would believe the main point of resonance would be the shaft itself and its orbit off the centerline of the shaft at certain rpm. The upgraded driveshaft for the TB03 uses a captured roll pin design on one end that would help out in that area. Eyeballing a TC3 shaft I have, its about 15mm longer than a TB03's shaft. So shaft length could be a part of the tuning frequency. Also with the power of mod motors I'm sure there was flex involved with the shaft. The gear teeth itself on the diff gears would be another point of resonance. The pitch of the gear teeth, gear mesh tightness, number of teeth etc. would change that. The pinion and spur gear could be another one. With shaft drive, resonance from the motor itself could be transfered here and directly to the drivetrain....versus a belt drive that the resonance would be transfered to a point and then absorbed by the belt.

Wish I had a pro4 to look at really close. Anyway enough rambling
From what I understand, it was a combination of materials, the style of gear they used-- basically the things you hit on. If I remember right, the points where the harmonics became bad were about 15mph apart.

Either way, it probably won't be an issue in 17.5
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 07:05 AM   #1364
Tech Adept
 
Callahan_88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 187
Default



Min TB-03D in progress!
__________________
Go big or go home! :)
Callahan_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 03:56 AM   #1365
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,039
Trader Rating: 4 (83%+)
Default

I just installed a Novak Ballistic 3S 8.5T 5000KV brushless system in my TB-03D. It is a little slow at start up and I thought it was suppose to be like that.

I played with my Sprint 2 recently and it has a Orion Orbital 13T Modified Motor and Tazer 12T ESC and I had a blast. Smooth, torque, awesome. A dream to drift/race with.

I read the manuel and it said you must change the pinion gear or I'll have a slow sloppy start and it'll run hotter(Like it does now). It gave some pinion teeth numbers though. Not sure what to choose or where to get it.

I don't have to change the Spur Gear right? What pinion gear for my motor should I get for the TB-03D to optimize it? Where to get it?


Also, after playing with my Sprint 2 I almost went back to brush motors. I am new to Brushless Systems still. The Orion was awesome, I want my TB-03D to have that feeling of torque, smoothness and not running hot. Also my brush has 0 glitches.

Let me hear your thoughts.
DriftWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Selling Schumacher Mi2, Tamiya M02, Tamiya TA04-S, Tamiya TB Evolution 3 Surikarn Ltd st_rob Australia For Sale/Trade 4 12-23-2008 07:37 PM
Tamiya 415 MSX, legacy 2.0, NIP Type A tires, Tamiya towel for sale or trade Fastburn R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 16 09-06-2008 12:45 AM
FS: Tekin Rebel 2 ESC w/ Tamiya GT Tuned Motor & Tamiya AM Radio & Receiver wrxnfx R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 6 06-10-2008 06:40 PM
Tamiya M03 / Trinity Brushes / Muchmore Battery Cooler / Tamiya M Chassis Wheels bluejays R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 12-16-2007 09:31 PM
Hpi rs4, tamiya tt01, tamiya tg-10, tamiya sprint! MORE!!!!! Genuinekid R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 10 09-10-2007 04:21 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:13 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0