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Old 10-27-2001, 06:47 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kraig
A couple things that I would like changed is this. I like having the battery on one side of the car and the electrics on the other. Probably because I like to run other vehicles but I don't have the batteries to go around. I hate using the packs with the wire.

The other thing and maybe I have something screwed up but with my arms all the way back in the front and the hood of the body rubs on the shock tower causing the paint to come off. Just a little thing but if anybody has any ideas I would be willing to listen to correct it.

Ok one more, probably related to the shock towers. With the car presently configured I am having a hard time getting the chassis down to 5mm's. Could the problems be related?

The car is fast on carpet, just wish I could drive it.

I'm also particularly interested on how exactly to tune the ride height to 5mm in the case where all the damper has same oil weight.

I really don't think bring it down to 5mm using down stop is the correct way to do as the car would travel up to 5mm only when lifted.

If using shock collar to play the ride height, the fell on the damper seems not right.

Rear Sway bar, when install according to manual, it does bother me where the end of the swaybar ball does not align with the ball on the arm. I supposed when you move the ball on the sway bar to get close to align with the arm's ball, it would soften your rear shock a bit since there will be less play on the bar.

Anyone having more experience, please share your knowledge to fine tune the car.

Last but not least, why the hell my chasis layout for battery (saddle) does not exactly match the battery when you build it like ussuall (all side consisting 3 batteries glued together or no gaps)??

Pretty happy with the smoothness (sorry, don't know how to spell) of all ball end, shock builds, and main pulley shaft.
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Old 10-30-2001, 07:42 AM   #107
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I know that on ANY TOURING CAR you should have the same weight shock oil on the left and right shocks...Front and rear can be of different weights, but make sure the the left front and right front are the same oil weight...

Look at various set-up sheets and see what people are running in their cars...I found that my 04R can run the same weight oil and springs as my TC3 did/does...Actually I use associated springs on my Tamiya (cuz they fit )

Normally your best source of info comes from people at the tracks that you race at Chatting about set-ups help too, but you gotta know enuff about the car you are driving to adapt and adjust settings to the particular track you'll be driving on each week/weekend

just my 2 cents
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Old 10-30-2001, 08:07 AM   #108
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Ok, here goes---

shock oil- in general most TC's use shock oil that is either equal weight front to rear, or within 10-20 weight difference, any farther out and most likely you need to look at other parts of your set-up-----SHOCK OIL DOES NOT EFFECT RIDE HEIGHT IN ANY WAY.

internal shock spacers- should only be used when droop screws aren't applicable and should never be used to adjust ride height in any way---that is what shock collars are used for. They are however used to limit UP travel (just like droop screws) and reduced body roll, and like any other part of the set-up too much can be more harmfull than too little.

Swaybars- the reason some manufacturers make the bars that are a little longer (ends don't perfectly allign with mounts in arms) to allow you to slightly "tune" your sway bars. However the ajustment must be equal on both ends. closer to end= softer bar/ father away from end= stiffer bar. Sway bars are also designed to slow down body roll, and should be used as a final fine tuning option, not a goto solve all.... consequently if you don't know much about suspension tuning you should leave those swaybars in your toolbox, because if the car handles poorly the sways will only compound the problem, and possibly add some weird handling characteristics to the mix.

Hope this help, and BTW these are not my opinions they are truths that I have learnt from "old pro's" over my 10 year experience.
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Old 10-30-2001, 08:11 AM   #109
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Unfortunately, I'm the only one running 414M in the area. I've been reading a lot of set-ups also tips and tricks since my first year of racing back in 1988, but it all come down to LOGIC .

I would say that it's not true to have the same oil weight on the left and right. What about when you racing oval course?
I guess is jut like saying, softer rear shocks does not mean more traction. I belive you know what I'm talking here .

And yes, front and rear can be different. But what I'm looking for is how to make them the same with all other parameters I require.

To bad there are no other cars to compare yet so far in my area. And thats the reason I'm bringing the subject here (well, actually someone did bring it up first about the ride height).

I do not own TA04, so I wouldn't dare to give any comparisons or comments.

Anyway, thanks for you infos.

Added: Yes, I find out about the swaybars and it's true what you have said. But still my problems would remain the same.

Without spacer inside, all shocks on their neutral positions (front and rear inclince are all the same), front ride height still around 9mm and does not have equal tension with the rear (rear around 7mm). So, when I adjust the front collar (to have same tension with rear), as you all know, ride height adds up.

If you could observe one 414M in your area, please drop me a line. Thank you

Last edited by Pyramid; 10-30-2001 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 10-31-2001, 12:34 PM   #110
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Er, Pyramid. Are we talking about oval here or sedan?

Back to the problem at hand. The stock springs are a bit long. Try Associated springs. They are a bit shorter and stiffer which should help. The blue, red and/or gold springs (stiffer springs in the front) should serve you well. Good luck.

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Old 10-31-2001, 06:45 PM   #111
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GAVIN: This is what I called suggestion and I'll try to locate one.

About the oval, I just point to the overal picture that is not true for ALWAYS use left and right oil the same. I'm very sorry if that is not what it meant on the first place. It's just because the world always is a big word.

OK, let's get back to 414M, is there any guys here using saddle pack config? Does the battery line up perfectly or there are gaps in between? Mine does.
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Old 10-31-2001, 11:44 PM   #112
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Default 414M saddles

I use sanyo 2400 saddle packs on my 414M, they seem to be fine. Are you using 3000's, cause they're larger then 2400's remember.
If there is a problem take little of the carbon away.
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Old 11-01-2001, 04:19 PM   #113
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Thanks for the info. And yes I'm using the 3000s and there are gaps in between the batteries.

If the 3000s are larger, there should be no gaps that if I were using 2400 then. If I files the carbon away, the batteries will be out from the bottom chassis. Meanning, batteries are lower than the chassis at they would be the one to touch the ground first.

I'm going to do 45 minutes fly and attend a small race to see if there are others 414M I could compared with.

Thanks for all and please keep this board alive
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Old 11-01-2001, 04:55 PM   #114
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Pyramid.....Are you to mean that not all the battery cells sit flush(flat) with the chassis? Or do they not fit into the slots at all?

If the calls are not flat, you may need to resolder the batteries so that they are flat(using a jig of some sort) If the cells cannot fit into the slots, you may need to file the openings a bit more to accomidate the size of the cells you have. Dont forget to file the edges of the slots facing the batteries at approx. 45deg.

If all else fails, you could build your saddle packs in the chassis. Granted you shouldnt need to go to this length, but... by placing the cells in the chassis first, taping them down and then soldering the bars on, you guarantee that your packs will match the slots. But again, you shouldnt have to do this(unless you're really anal about things of this nature).

Good luck

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Old 11-01-2001, 07:39 PM   #115
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Hi guys,

Just got myself a 414M, any setup and buildng tips?
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:11 AM   #116
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I've used 3000's in my 414M with no problems.

New carpet set up.
Front: 80wt oil, purple Associated TC3 springs, blue sway bar, -1 camber, stock caster, plaid TRC foam tires.

Rear: 60wt oil, red TC3 springs, yellow sway bar, -1 camber, stock kick up, purple TRC foam tires and the 2.5 degree toe-in block.

Tight track, 100ft straight, lots and lots of turns! Roll out at about 27mm. 120 spur, 37 pinion, 57 mm foams (need new ones), stock motor
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Old 11-02-2001, 11:39 AM   #117
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joehwee......Its a Tamiya. It practically builds itself.

That being said, I'd suggest swapping the countersunk screws for simlar lengths by Yokomo or some other mfgr. The hexes on the countersunks are shallow and slightly "starred" like a torx. The result is that they are easy to strip(and it sux arse trying to drill them out later).

As mentioned above, the kit springs are a bit longish(but will work). If you want, go with Asc. springs.

And lastly, the outer ball cup for the rear camber link is somewhat prone to popping off in a hard hit as it is at a severe angle. If you can get a captured ball link(like the one on the inside of the camber link) put it on the outside also. I just used the ones from the torque rods since I dont use them.

Thats about it. Just some minor annoyances, nothing major. Oh, and as for oil, something in the 60-80wt range will be a good place to start. The rest is as the kit says. Good luck

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Old 11-05-2001, 04:21 AM   #118
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To GAVIN:

About Asc. spings, they are a bit bigger in diameter and the length is about the same. I have not isntall yet but I notice they have less coil.

About the battery, I use Sanyo 3000s and there are gaps in between cells with saddle pack configuration. So, if I were building the saddle outside chassis, batteries will not sit correctly. This would be your second point you mentioned before to build the packs in the chassis. But I really don't want to do that.

I didn't have any change to observe another 414M since all they guys (only 2 of them) are running side by side.

So, please anyone who has sanyo 3000s and use saddle pack, put your batteries in the car and observe it one more time. I would really appreciate it as I will rather get a new chassis to correct the problems.

To Joehwee:
It is 100% correct about what Gavin says as for the screw. You would better of getting those Yokomo style one or you'll be sorry later like what I experience now.

As fas as for the rear ball cup, I have not experience problems with it. Well, it's been out for only one small race and have not hit anything hard yet.

I would like to add on the steering lingkage or block whatever it calls. You could need to add a thin washer to make them sit properly with only small amount of play.

When installing the servo, do not tighten to hard or the servo casing will be cracked (I use KO 2143).

The original setup will give you a lot of traction and works very well on a bumpy tracks such as parking lot racing. But later, you'll find harder oil and sping in combination would make your car a corner eater.

It's all about what I could contribute so far and I wish someone has mentioned them before I build my kit. Just like what I asked in this forum before (just scroll up and you'll see my earlier posting).
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Old 11-05-2001, 12:33 PM   #119
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Foam tires and carpet.... don't put traction compound on the front. Way too much steering.
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Old 11-05-2001, 01:36 PM   #120
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pyramid......It sounds as if you may need to resolder your packs so they have no gaps between the cells and are not crooked. Do you have a battery building jig? If not, building the packs in the chassis would be the last resort. Have you been able to try another persons saddle packs for comparison?

I use sanyos (3000/2400), as do my race mates who have the M. We havent experienced any problems with saddle packs fitting the chassis. Its odd that yours dont fit. Good luck.

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