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Old 07-16-2002, 11:23 PM   #961
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Talk about ripping someone.. sheesh....
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Old 07-17-2002, 05:10 AM   #962
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It's for his benefit
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Old 07-17-2002, 07:03 AM   #963
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I agree with Ruf but in the end he said if he's just running it all what he has stated doesn't matter. Although if he's racing, wants to get better at racing or at least wants to beat his boys all what Ruf said should be taken into account. The 414M or M2 is not a "see how fast the car can go in a straight line up down the street" car. It was designed for racing is mind. I had 2 414M's sold one and the guy just runs it up and down in a parking lot with a mod motor. Wired all funky and it just kills me to see it.
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Last edited by Isaac; 07-17-2002 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 07-17-2002, 07:31 AM   #964
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Quote:
Originally posted by ruf


That's not the only thing that makes it look newbie...

If you plan on racing that thing, try the following:

1) Get a real servo. The Hitec 225MG is very prone to frying it's motor. I've gone through 4 of them in the past on random projects. Hitec has great service, but I'd rather have a great servo and not have to exercise the warranty claim. It also does not have the torque or precision for use in a 4wd sedan of this caliber.

Sorry to hear about your problems with the 225MG. Luckily for me, mine is holding up quite well and see no reason to change it.

2) Get a real body. The HPI Mustang is horrible. Period. As ugly as they are, get a Stratus of some sort and paint/sticker it like another car. If your sanctioning body doesn't care, and you must have a Ford, try the GT40.

The Mustang body seems to be handling just fine, thank you. No excessive understeer nor oversteer with my suspension setup. I see no reason to follow the crowd (that's why my real car isn't a Honda/Acura).

3) Get one more pair of real wheels/tires. You now own one of the most balanced 4wd sedans ever made. It would be a shame if your compromised that handling in the effort to make it resemble a muscle car by using differential width tires. The X-patterns are a great tire for parking lot, but stick to 24-26mm.

I'm still experimenting with the tires, but so far the current configuration works OK. The smaller front tires wasn't done for looks - it was to lower the rotating mass to help acceleration coming out of turns and to quicken-up steering response - and it does. I just tried a set of Medial Pros which seem to work better overall so I will probably go with those. The track I run on is a parking lot so that's what I set my car up for.

4) Unless you absolutely need to run them, please ditch the stick packs. Those old powerpole connectors aren't helping either.

I may change to saddle packs in the future, but for now the stick packs work fine, and I would dare you to measure a significant difference between the Powerpole and Deans connectors. The only real difference might be in weight and frankly, I don't care.

5) Stand up your shocks. That angle may look cool, but you now have a rising rate suspension. If you are indeed racing on parking lot surfaces (loose), that will compromise your traction at the limits. The white springs don't help either seeing as they are pretty stiff. This should lead to the front end washing out mid-corner if not immediately upon turn-in. I can't tell what rear springs you are running, but judging by the wire diameter and coil separation, they look pretty soft. It appears to me that you've set your car up to push deep into a corner and powerslide on exit. This may look cool, but your corner speed will be compromised and your speed through the infield will be much slower.

I didn't lay down the shocks because it looked "cool". I did it because I run on uneven surfaces. I want the suspension soft for the little stuff and stiffer when it has to be, hence the rising rate setup - I like it that way. The car does not wash out nor does it powerslide out of turns. As unorthodox as it may seem to you, it works for me and the way I drive and that's all the matters isn't it?.

6) Then cut your body posts.

Honestly, if you're not racing, none of this matters. Enjoy it. I think that you'll find that a lot of us think it's a shame to purchase such a potent racing chassis as the 414M2 and not set it up accordingly.


As a matter of fact, I do race. The 414 is replacing my long abused TA04-R (which is still a good car). Show me where it is written that a particular car has to be setup a particular way. Seems to me a car should be setup according to the drivers style of driving. I appreciate your input, but please don't be so quick to hack someone else's setup because what works for you may not work for someone else. I'm still experimenting with this car so we shall see. But, I will cut the body posts. Everything else will remain the same - except maybe the batteries.

Last edited by Babblefish; 07-17-2002 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 07-17-2002, 07:36 AM   #965
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Hey to each his own I always say Babblefish. It's your car do what you will with it.
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Old 07-17-2002, 12:25 PM   #966
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I wasn't trying to rip anyone. I was just trying to help setup his car.

And like Isaac said, to each his own.
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Old 07-17-2002, 12:58 PM   #967
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414M owners,

I just bought one and need to have an all around set-up for outdoor, running both one ways.
What do you recommend to start with ?

Thanks
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Old 07-17-2002, 01:07 PM   #968
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But if you insist...

Quote:
Originally posted by Babblefish
Sorry to hear about your problems with the 225MG. Luckily for me, mine is holding up quite well and see no reason to change it.

It always feels fine before it goes dead. Anyways if you can't see (or feel) the deficiencies of the 225MG, then none of this will mean a whole lot to you.

The Mustang body seems to be handling just fine, thank you. No excessive understeer nor oversteer with my suspension setup. I see no reason to follow the crowd (that's why my real car isn't a Honda/Acura).

I think you are compensating for an unbalanced body with an unbalanced setup. Regardless of the balance of the overall package, the Mustang lacks downforce. Again, if you can't feel Mustang body's weaknesses, then none of this really matters.

It's not about following the crowd, it's about being competitive. The first time I tried a Stratus body (I hated them then, I hate them now), it felt like someone was standing on my car. The car felt locked into a groove. I'm still ALWAYS looking for a body that handles as well as the Stratus. I really do hate the things, so until I do find another body, I just use some creativity and paint them differently. I like being original as much as the next guy (you should see what I currently drive...), but there's a point where you end up hurting yourself. Who cares if it's a Honda or Trinity or whatever, I'll still use the best product available. If there's a competitive, original alternative, GREAT. If not, oh well...

I'm still experimenting with the tires, but so far the current configuration works OK. The smaller front tires wasn't done for looks - it was to lower the rotating mass to help acceleration coming out of turns and to quicken-up steering response - and it does. I just tried a set of Medial Pros which seem to work better overall so I will probably go with those. The track I run on is a parking lot so that's what I set my car up for.

Super-narrows haven't been legal since the 90's. They do increase track width which adds to stability and their smaller contact patch does decrease scrub making steering response quicker. The unfortunate thing is that you are sacrificing overall traction on a surface where traction is at a premium. On carpet or grippy asphalt, the positive aspects of super-narrows would outweight the negatives, but on parking lot the tables are turned in the opposite manner as you've found out with the Medial Pros.

I may change to saddle packs in the future, but for now the stick packs work fine, and I would dare you to measure a significant difference between the Powerpole and Deans connectors. The only real difference might be in weight and frankly, I don't care.

Who said anything about weight? Saddle packs are for weight distribution: lowering your CG and decreasing your polar moment of inertia. Unless you are building your own stick packs out of matched cells, then you are also missing out on a lot of power (I do know a guy who races stock in Japan that still used to do that here).
I wouldn't recommend Dean's either since a 2-pole plug makes for ugly, inefficient wiring. What it's really about is just that: efficiency. I would suggest a banana plug of some brand (Trinity, Peak, GM) or hardwiring. Less wire, more efficiency, more power. The Powerpoles themselves are ok on efficiency, but there are better plugs out there and the wiring hurts you more than anything.

Out of curiousity, what ESC are you using? Seeing as how you are running an old Midnight 2 Pro, I wouldn't think that you really care that much about power. That's a good thing as people often overemphasize power over handling. Unfortunately in stock racing, power is the name of the game - much moreso than in mod. The MVP tends to overheat (fast as hell while it's doing it), so I would try an EPIC based motor if you race in a warm climate. Stay away from the GM3 as it tends to burn out arms with alarming ease.

I didn't lay down the shocks because it looked "cool". I did it because I run on uneven surfaces. I want the suspension soft for the little stuff and stiffer when it has to be, hence the rising rate setup - I like it that way. The car does not wash out nor does it powerslide out of turns. As unorthodox as it may seem to you, it works for me and the way I drive and that's all the matters isn't it?.

Ok, so the scenario is a rough, bumpy parking lot surface with mediocre traction (sugar water? VHT?). Your logic works on the straightaway where the suspension is pretty settled. The problem is that it's relatively easy to deal with bumps on a straightaway. Now you dive into a corner. Your suspension is displaced to the point where it is effectively stiffer. You hit a bump. Now what? This bump upsets the chassis, costing you corner speed, maybe even spinning you out. On a bumpy, loose surface, you generally want a soft, linear setup to soak up bumps midcorner.

When do you use a laydown suspension? High traction, smooth tracks. Carpet, etc. You generate so much traction and body roll on these surfaces that you want to limit body roll (stiffen) towards the end of the travel to prevent traction rolling.

As a matter of fact, I do race. The 414 is replacing my long abused TA04-R (which is still a good car). Show me where it is written that a particular car has to be setup a particular way. Seems to me a car should be setup according to the drivers style of driving. I appreciate your input, but please don't be so quick to hack someone else's setup because what works for you may not work for someone else. I'm still experimenting with this car so we shall see. But, I will cut the body posts. Everything else will remain the same - except maybe the batteries.

Good for you. Again, to each his own. I'm just trying to help.
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Last edited by ruf; 07-17-2002 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 07-17-2002, 05:46 PM   #969
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ruf;
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Most of the guys I run with also use the Stratus body for all the reasons you mentioned. I just wanted to try other bodies first to see for myself what works and what doesn't.
The local track that I run on has fairly loose rules, just stock motors, no reversing ESC and they would prefer sedan bodies. It's a new track so the rules are still being formed (mostly ROAR based). No traction spray of any kind is used. Matter of fact, one of the smoothest and fastest guys I run with uses super narrows all around and he almost always comes in in the top 3.
The ESC I'm using is a LRP Pro Sport, the receiver is a Novak Mercury.
I race for fun and to socialize, so winning isn't very important - it's the experience of just driving with other people and spending all my money.
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Old 07-17-2002, 07:44 PM   #970
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Sorry to interfere. But I just thought the way you came about saying it Ruf was uhhh harsh or rude. There are more pleasant ways to offer advice. Not just come online and start ripping someone. Yes, it may be for his benefit. But I think it could have come about nicer.

Anyways, I do agree with you though except the connector deal. I use deans, but just switched to Reedy Power Connectors for my 414. I used to direct solder them. But I use connectors now because the places I race don't offer power outlets. BYP! So soldering becomes a pain when pitting in a parking lot.

Bodies, yes, I agree Stratus is the way to go. Although I have to use a Modena body for the TCS race. Hmmm servos. I don't use Hitec. I hate em. I use Airtronics 94257 and 94757. What's the speed of the 225MG anyways? Tires? Hmmm TakeOff CS27's or Foam. Medials sound good because they have tread. I disagree about the GM3. I haven't fried an arm yet. Seems to be a very popular motor locally. Even for small track. Most dominate motor I've seen yet around here.. Although some people have tuned MVP's rather well. P2K2's are also very good. Ran one but magnets came loose. Same with another guy. I have a second one. But it's pretty strong. I think it would be a good choice to start with.

Well anyways, do you have any good setups for the 414 in a parkling lot Ruf ? Looking for one my self. Hmmm will it let me post a picture of mine.......... let me try....
Ruf..... Yellowbird?
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Old 07-17-2002, 07:45 PM   #971
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Heres the other pic... sorry, I have an old digital camera. I should stop spending money on RC and get a new one!
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Old 07-17-2002, 09:07 PM   #972
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I ran a GM3 at Race City and loved it. I like the smooth powerband, it was kinda like a nitro engine. I did burn an armature, I think I over geared, I replaced the arm, and geared down, and it was better than ever. I like the P2k as well. I can't wait to race my 414 at Rock Hill this weekend. I'm having delusions of grandure running through my head!
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Old 07-17-2002, 09:47 PM   #973
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What is the length of the 7 long and 2 short turnbuckles on the 414M? I would like to purchase Lunsford sets if possible. Any advice? TIA.
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Old 07-17-2002, 11:26 PM   #974
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I also really liked the GM3. For some reason though, I've seen a lot burn up. A few of the guys had them overgeared, but there were some that just inexplicably went up in smoke. I use it now for 12th scale where there's less load. If it stays together, the GM3 is a great motor.

Kilruf - yah I understand I was probably a bit rude. As for a parking lot, I sold my 414 almost a year ago. I'm waiting for the worlds edition. If I was guessing, I'd run yellow springs/30 in front, red/25 in rear. Then I'd start playing with the roll centers and shock angles. Oh yeah. One word: FOAMS...

Babblefish - I apologize if I came across harsh. It's always good to try new things, but some things just undeniably work. I feel the same way about racing. A lot of times it gets way too serious. Sometimes I just get it all wrong and I wallow at the back of the pack and I still have fun and laugh about it.
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:29 AM   #975
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what is the fianl gear ratio for the 414 and the 04? is it 2.1? I don't have time to look through all the pages, thanks
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